National Defence Committee on Nov. 28th, 2013

[Richard Fadden]

I'm going to ask the vice-chief.

[LGen Guy R. Thibault]

Certainly the funds in the supplementary estimates are really dedicated to joint collective training, which is really the way we bring together the elements of the armed forces in a post-Afghanistan kind of context. In the last 10 years we've been very focused in the Canadian Forces on that particular mission.

Of course, as we now look to the future we need to be prepared for all possibilities. One of the keystone activities for us is of course training in the north. We've had a number of training activities such as Operation Nanook, which is really a major joint operation exercise in the north. The funds that we have specifically in these supplementals are really to continue our efforts post-Afghanistan for the joint training exercises we have.

Of course, readiness is much more than just collective training. It's individual training; it's making sure that our men and women who are in our three services have the right skill sets—that it's in our school houses, and we bring it all together really as a part of working together in these very complex environments.

So training post-Afghanistan is really how we will maintain our readiness, and certainly for the allocation of funds, that's where we really are putting our resources.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you, General.

Mr. Boulerice, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to let the committee know I'll be sharing my time with Mr. Harris.

According to our documents, Communications Security Establishment Canada's funding is going up 4.9%, from $439 million to nearly $461 million. That's huge in a time of budget cuts.

What troubles me, however, is that we're finding out about it today. According to documents obtained by CBC, the United States conducted an extensive week-long spying operation during the G20 summit in 2010. And the whole thing was allegedly carried out with Canada's permission, and perhaps with the participation or permission of Communications Security Establishment Canada, as a partner.

Can you confirm or contradict CBC's claims?

[John Forster]

Thank you for the question.

For the first part, on the budget increase, the CSEC's budget continues to increase related to increased resources, particularly in the area of cyber-defence. So as the government implements its cyber-strategy over several years, we are building our capabilities to defend the computer network of the Government of Canada and the information of Canadians from cyber-attacks, and that's one of the reasons for the ramp-up in costs. The four items that are in the supplementary estimates that we've proposed are about $20 million.

On the second part of your question, related to the story on the CBC, I can't comment on the specifics of our intelligence operations or capability with either Canada or the allies, as the information is classified. I would, however, just stress that under law, CSEC cannot target Canadians anywhere in the world or anyone in Canada, including visitors. I cannot ask my international partners to do anything that I am not allowed by law to do. Both of those would be against the law. As you know, the commissioner of the CSEC reviews our activities constantly to make sure we are lawful, and has found our activities to be lawful.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Forster, I want to go back to you here with respect to CSEC, to the Canadian top secret network. Some of the money here is for modernizing that, so-called. I want to ask about CSEC's top secret network mission related to the activities in Brazil that have been reported. Can you tell me how the Brazilian government's Ministry of Mines and Energy becomes such a national security threat to Canada? Who tasked such a project? Was your agency directed to do that? How does that happen?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair. The question by Mr. Harris is not at all related to supplementary estimates (B), which we're studying. I also draw your attention to O'Brien and Bosc, page 1068, in chapter 20, on how special caution is needed in questioning public servants on their roles and the responsibilities they have to ministers. I believe this question is out of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

I agree.

Mr. Harris, can you—

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Before you agree, there's $8.559 million in vote 20(b) under appropriations for the Canadian top secret network. This is a specific program-—

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

It's for a program, and Mr. Forster has already answered.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Well, it's not out of order, sir, because it's related directly to a line item in the budget.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Mr. Harris, could you rephrase your question to make it more supplementary (B) related?

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

It's related because we're talking about the top secret network program and he's looking for more money for a program. The question that arises is, how is this money being used? For example, the Brazilian government's Ministry of Mines and Energy was a target of this agency's work, according to reports. That's very directly related if he's looking for more money to do the same sort of thing.

Is that what we're looking for money for?

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

I will allow that question to be asked as is, now, and within the restrictions with regard to national security. I will allow the witness to answer.

[John Forster]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The money in the supps (B)...we've requested approximately $9 million this year for work on Canada's top secret network. CSE manages the top secret network on behalf of the Government of Canada. It is a network used by approximately 20 agencies that are involved in and need to work with highly classified top secret information. CSE is the steward or manager of that network for those departments. We have embarked on a five-year $44 million project to modernize and enhance the security of that network to make sure that our departments are able to deal with and share classified information at the top secret level amongst them as well as with our allied partners. That's the nature of the supplementary estimates there.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

So you're saying that top secret network has no relation to the activities in Brazil?

[John Forster]

It has no direct relationship.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I have another stand-alone question related to the Cormorant helicopters that Canada purchased.

As we know, nine helicopters from the U.S. presidential fleet...they were known as Kestrels, a variant of the Cormorant. Is any of the money in this $400 million of additional funds allocated to put these helicopters into service as Cormorants? There was some talk back in June about a study being done with respect to that. Obviously, the Cormorant helicopters have performed very well as a platform for search and rescue, and if we could have nine more at a reasonable price, that would be a good thing to do. Is there any of this allocation here for that purpose?

[Richard Fadden]

No, Mr. Chairman.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Are there any plans to do that?

[Richard Fadden]

No, Mr. Chairman.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Is there any reason why the government doesn't seem to want to talk about these nine helicopters that were purchased from the U.S. for about $164 million according to reports?

[Richard Fadden]

I don't think we're unwilling to talk about it, Mr. Chairman. They were purchased for the particular purpose of providing parts for our program. That was the understanding that we had with the United States when we purchased them, and insofar as I've been made aware, that's exactly what we're using them for.

I don't know if Admiral Finn has anything to add, but we're acting in a manner consistent with the purchase order from the United States.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

There was, however, a—

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Your time has expired, Mr. Harris.