Evidence of meeting #108 for National Defence in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was training.
A recording is available from Parliament.
September 27th, 2018 / 12:15 p.m.
Richard Martel Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, CPC
Hello, Mr. Dallaire.
This has all been very interesting so far.
Have the Canadian Armed Forces ever asked you to share your expertise with them on the content of the training provided at the Peace Support Training Centre in Kingston?
12:15 p.m.
Founder, Roméo Dallaire Child Soldiers Initiative, As an Individual
The Canadian Army holds an annual meeting with its generals about training. Two or three years ago, there was a meeting at the University of New Brunswick, and Ms. Whitman was invited to the symposium on content. She described the program we offer, and the generals in attendance wanted to know more about it. So we were invited to the Canadian Army Doctrine and Training Centre in Kingston.
We held a preparatory meeting. It was with them that we began the procedures. The Peace Support Training Centre was also in attendance, and it was part of the same structure. The former commander was my executive assistant and he was also present.
We explained to them what we were in the process of doing. The generals were engaged in the subject. We informed the chief of National Defence, the Armed Forces Council and all the senior authorities. We held a preparatory meeting with all those people present. That is when we began the new doctrine, with General Vance. They asked us to help them write it. The training directive is part of the training program they now use.
What they had to do, in Edmonton, was not training. Rather, they had to produce a training directive so they could then deduce the training content.
Giving Power Point presentations in front of 250 people for an hour or two is not training, but it leads to training.
Representatives of the Peace Support Training Centre came to see our training. Every summer, we train veterans. Our trainers are Canadian veterans. For one month, they are trained at the university, at our institute, to prepare them to give training overseas and to take part in various content development processes.
12:15 p.m.
Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, CPC
That brings me to my next question.
The training is essential, of course, and needed. Earlier this week, however, we heard that the training is just one day.
Is one day enough to address this complex and sensitive subject matter? Is it long enough?
12:15 p.m.
Founder, Roméo Dallaire Child Soldiers Initiative, As an Individual
I heard your questions.
First, it might have taken them one day to train 250 people, but those 250 people did not sit there all day. They had an information session of about 45 minutes per group.
They were given a Power Point presentation for that information session and were told that they had to think about one thing or another. Those are command directives in the army. Those people then have to produce courses and content.
That is what we do and what we are committed to.
12:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Roméo Dallaire Child Soldiers Initiative, As an Individual
Yes.
12:15 p.m.
Founder, Roméo Dallaire Child Soldiers Initiative, As an Individual
Go ahead.
That is its role.
12:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Roméo Dallaire Child Soldiers Initiative, As an Individual
I want to make sure that you understand. I would say that one day is never enough for.... It's a constant battle that we have with any armed force that we're dealing with. They tell us that they don't have any more training dates to give. That depends on what you set your priorities on. It also depends on how you can infuse that into other elements of your training.
Sometimes I think there's this perception that you're going to add another week on to their training. If another week saves lives, why not? Also, if it means that you can find ways to inject this into the scenarios that already exist, there are ways to do that. It's not an impossibility to overcome.
12:20 p.m.
Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, CPC
I have one last question for you.
Should our troops expect to come into contact with child soldiers? If so, are you sure they will be able to respond appropriately?
12:20 p.m.
Founder, Roméo Dallaire Child Soldiers Initiative, As an Individual
Given the way the deployment is planned, that would be a very remote possibility. That has not happened so far.
We have nonetheless told the armed forces that we could travel to Edmonton to provide training before its members leave. We wanted to convey the content to them. They were very rushed and had very little time. I know the leader was not very happy because there was not enough time to prepare them once the decisions had been made. We were willing to go there, however, and to provide more content on the subject.
We also talked to General Rouleau about whether the Canadian Joint Operations Command was responsible for all operations. We asked him to organize that training for all armed forces members so he would have soldiers and sailors who had received the training. We discussed the possibility of delivering the training in the field. That is not the best option, but it is certainly better than nothing.
Finally, we could go into the field to validate the training. Whether in Mali or Iraq, we have to participate. We are the only organization in the world that views child soldiers not as a humanitarian problem, but as a security problem. That threatens our operations. In this context, we have to know how to deal with those threats in order to minimize and ultimately neutralize them.
12:20 p.m.
Founder, Roméo Dallaire Child Soldiers Initiative, As an Individual
Thank you.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
General Dallaire, based on your experience on the ground in Rwanda, I'm curious what lessons were learned from that mission that have not yet been addressed.
Where is there still more work to be done in terms of peacekeeping operations? What lessons learned have not yet been addressed?
12:20 p.m.
Founder, Roméo Dallaire Child Soldiers Initiative, As an Individual
The overriding lesson that's not been addressed is political will. We have not seen the political will to want to engage in complex and ambiguous missions in order to stabilize scenarios and prevent the destruction of human beings. Until the political will comes aboard and until the political will is able to convince its own people that if you're sending soldiers, you will have risks.... That's why we're sending soldiers.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
When you talk about political will, you're talking about the individual politics within each nation that's contributing to the UN.
12:20 p.m.
Founder, Roméo Dallaire Child Soldiers Initiative, As an Individual
Correct.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
You're in a unique position to have an experience of understanding how the politics works, so where do you see the roadblock in the politics that leads to the lack of political will?
12:20 p.m.
Founder, Roméo Dallaire Child Soldiers Initiative, As an Individual
I think one of the important things is that politicians have a fundamental role of informing their constituents, but informing their constituents includes security matters.
I've had, I don't know how many times over my years as a General, and also in the Senate, politicians telling me, “We don't get elected on security matters. We don't get elected on military subjects or foreign policy.” However, you can certainly fall and certainly be held accountable to the electorate if they're really ugly about it.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
Is one of our problems that we're not educating the public on why peacekeeping is so important for Canada?
12:20 p.m.
Founder, Roméo Dallaire Child Soldiers Initiative, As an Individual
Take note, because that's the answer.
That is an overriding factor. You're absolutely right. Not only that but we keep them in a false premise of the past. All the peacekeeping we used to do during the Cold War, when people wanted to do peacekeeping, chapter VI, was barely 3% of our efforts but it was 97% of our reputation with Canadians. Ninety-seven per cent of our work was how to shoot Russians. That's what we trained for. We trained down at the time for very simple, classic, very established peacekeeping under a flag that had an enormous amount of respect.
Now you're into a whole new spectrum of security that requires people to realize that peacekeeping is a role of a great nation. We're one of the 11 most powerful nations in the world. We have a responsibility to protect. We articulated it. We invented it. We still are fearful of operationalizing it. I would argue that this is not one party or another. This is the political elite of a nation that has embraced a dimension of its responsibility.
In 2017, you had 150th anniversary of Canada and you had the 100th anniversary of Vimy Ridge where we spilled the blood of our youth to become a nation. What an opportunity. All parties could have gotten together to focus us on what the future is and what Canada should do. One of them is to engage in peace and security for not only children, not only women, but peace and security in the world to advance the concept that all humans are equal.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
12:25 p.m.
Founder, Roméo Dallaire Child Soldiers Initiative, As an Individual
Yes, I was at Vimy also. That is to say Hill 70.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
Hill 70 was one of the battles that first set Canada on its path of being defined as its own entity apart from Great Britain.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
Do you think that if you walked outside and asked 100 Canadians if they knew what Hill 70 was, they would know?
