National Defence Committee on Oct. 2nd, 2018

[Kathryn White]

Let me dive into it. I think one of the ways, at the very basic level, is through gender advisers. As I said, in DPKO it is a contribution that Canada could make directly and that would make a difference. I'm going to be a little bit mischievous here, since it is the season. You may have seen the poster that says, “My favourite season is the fall of the patriarchy.”

In a way, we have to see women more broadly as agents and actors. We've seen issues south of the border that have been quite alarming. In terms of representation, I think that in Canada it means encouraging women to be involved in their communities' governance as well. I think there are many ways to do this. One of them.... In fact, I will also tell you that UNA-Canada hosts the largest diversity or anti-racism in the country and has done so for over 20 years.

One of the issues I'm concerned about is making sure that, as we talk about issues of race and diversity, we reach out to young, white, marginalized rural boys and that we include everyone so they know that it is an asset for all of us to be engaged.

[Beth Woroniuk]

Sorry, I'm....

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

That's okay. We might have time to circle back on that thought, but I'm going to have to yield the floor to MP Robillard.

The floor is yours.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for their excellent presentations.

I will ask my questions in French and they will be addressed to Ms. White.

In light of UN Security Council resolutions 1325 and 1889, is priority being given to involving women in conflict resolution efforts as a fundamental aspect of peacekeeping and international security?

[Kathryn White]

Thank you for your question.

I think it's an important one. I'm going to dive in and say that, in some ways, Resolution 1325 is more about the empowerment of women. Resolution 1889 is also interesting and important; however, it talks about women solely as victims. I think we have to make sure that we engage on both of these issues.

My colleague talked about sexual exploitation and abuse in military settings, sometimes blue on blue. At the same time, we have to work to see women in this role of leadership and governance, including post-conflict. I certainly focus my remarks here on peacekeeping, as opposed to peace-building and peace operations. There is a vast opportunity here, in recognition of your question and other questions. Having good men champions asking these questions is very important to the success in the future.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

In light of UN Security Council resolution 2242, adopted in 2015, which sets a target of doubling the current involvement of women in peacekeeping operations by 2020, how do Canada's efforts in the Elsie Initiative for Women in Peace Operations contribute to achieving these targets?

[Kathryn White]

It's an important question. I think it will make quite a difference. It's creating new norms, in a way, a new normative process to say that women should be there. I spoke earlier about some of those risks—for example, that we don't push women who are in militaries to do two deployments a year. Canada, frankly, is leading. I think the average for women's engagement in militaries in NATO countries is 5% to 10%. We're pretty close to 15%, and certainly I believe Jonathan Vance when he says that he wants to get that up to 25%. It is initiatives like this that can make a difference. Again, I gave you my proviso, which is the risk, of course, as well.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

To what extent are concerns related to women, peace, and security incorporated in UN peacekeeping operations mandates, mediation efforts, and humanitarian and development activities?

[Kathryn White]

This is not insignificant. Canada isn't the only country that believes in feminism and has expectations of the UN, and DPKO in particular. I'm happy to say that, as you may know, Jean-Pierre Lacroix was here as part of the UN Defence Ministerial, and he's taken these issues on board. I would cite my neighbour and colleague and friend here to say that there are many issues to be addressed, but certainly having leadership that says women must be at these tables is making a difference, albeit slowly.

[Beth Woroniuk]

I'll just add that in 2015 there were three major United Nations studies done, and I'm sure you've had lots of people who have referenced the high-level panel on peace operations. Another study done that same year was on the implementation of Security Council Resolution 1325. One of its major findings was that countries are very willing to line up and say they support the resolutions and women's efforts to build peace, but the funding has not kept pace.

Over and over again, member states of the UN are not willing to step forward and sign the cheques to put their money where their mouth is on this important agenda, so this is something that has been highlighted globally as a real gap in terms of turning the nice words of these resolutions into reality.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Do UN peacekeeping operations include a component on conflict prevention? If so, what does that look like and how is this component being implemented?

[Kathryn White]

This is part of a comprehensive approach, from dealing with failing and fragile states to general governance and development. In a way, our investments—including Canada's, but those of the UN as a whole—are in development. I'm going to come back to the sustainable development goals.

It is often poverty, exacerbated by the effects of climate change and of unequal access to education and so on, that underlies many conflicts. As I mentioned in my remarks, it isn't just access to jobs—especially for young men—but access to meaningful jobs. Of course, the world is changing in terms of what we can expect meaningful jobs to be. There may be few of them as AI moves forward, and so on.

Yes, you should be assured, but I would also encourage you to exercise your governance role to continue to push the UN to keep this focus on the whole sequence, from development to peacekeeping to peace-building, peace operations and so on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you for that.

We're going to go to five-minute questions now. The first five-minute question goes to MP Fisher.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here today. I appreciate your testimony.

Ms. White, in your UN brief entitled “Extremism: A Women, Peace and Security Approach”, you mention that the role of women is often seen as that of peace builders, with less emphasis on their role as active agents in conflict. You also mention that women play various roles in violent extremism, including as victims, actors and peacemakers.

If we continue to encourage and recruit more women to take part in peacekeeping operations—Ms. Woroniuk, you talked about the Elsie initiative, for example—do the missions stand a greater chance of countering violent extremism? In your opinion, what specific roles can or do women play in peacekeeping operations that ensure a greater chance of success?

[Kathryn White]

First of all, it behooves us to see women as agents broadly, as you've expressed there. I will attempt to give an answer to that. My first response would be that we need the data. We need to do the research. We're at the learning spot. In fact, this is a place where Canada could provide some leadership, by gathering that data, both qualitative and quantitative—I'm thinking about Bruce, since we have an academic here—to dive into those conversations, as well as data points. I think there's an opportunity here.

The blunt truth is that we don't know yet. In fact, what we hear from those of us who have been on missions in the past is that women in conflict states are often not that thrilled to see peacekeepers at all. They want the peace, but it's not magic for them to simply see the blue berets.

I am hopeful. There is some indication that the presence of women throughout the peace ops and peace-building system will make a difference, because women will see their roles. Of course, it will change their roles. You've heard about Afghanistan or other patriarchies, where—to use a male analogy—we're moving the goal sticks forward on gender writ large. In our own societies, we know that we have benefited enormously from this, in terms of peace, rule of law, prosperity, and so on.

We have indications that it will make a positive difference. Your question is important, because I think Canada can contribute to collecting some of that data.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

You have two minutes.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I think this will take more than two minutes.

Beth, would you also like to answer that last question?

[Beth Woroniuk]

Some of the interesting work being done on countering violent extremism or countering terrorism involves work at the grassroots level and the work that women's organizations are doing to engage communities and young men. They are often the ones doing the counter-narratives and doing the nitty-gritty work of discussion, even visiting young men who they hear are in danger of being radicalized.

They face three different problems. One is that they don't have the funding to do their work. Second, they are often not listened to by local authorities. We have numerous examples from Afghanistan where women's organizations warned authorities about radicalization that was happening. They weren't listened to, and then buses were attacked or arms were sold. Third, they often experience repression from their own governments when they're trying to do some of this work.

I would focus attention on the really important grassroots work that women's organizations are doing on countering terrorism.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Who did you say wasn't listening to the warnings?

[Beth Woroniuk]

Local authorities and local leaders often don't believe that women have something to say on political matters.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Go ahead, MP Bezan.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you, Chair.

I have a question for all of you, but I will start with Dr. Jones. When you were before the Senate committee on foreign relations, back in 2015, you were talking about peace operations. You said that one of the key points is about “putting an end to sexual exploitation and abuse—actions that erode the local and international legitimacy of peacekeeping.” Canada is over in Mali, together with numerous other nations. Where are the biggest challenges right now regarding sexual exploitation? Which of our partner nations have been violating that code of conduct about respecting women and girls?

You also mentioned your concern about the behaviour of some of the partner nations in UN peacekeeping, as well as the often misogynistic countries. I'd like to get your feedback on that.

[Bruce Jones]

It's an ongoing concern. Some of the things we saw in the Central African Republic were particularly egregious in these terms, with a number of the contributors there.

The acid point here always comes back to the fact that the UN itself doesn't really have either the legal authority or the operational capacity to prosecute soldiers who engage in this behaviour or commanders who allow it. That has to come back to host nations. Canada could demonstrate leadership, if it encounters an issue like this, by engaging in the correct forms of accountability of its own troops.