National Defence Committee on Oct. 4th, 2018

[Adam Day]

There are different levels to that question.

Taking your last point, I think that Canada is uniquely placed to communicate well with the allies in part on linguistic grounds but also because of a long history in peacekeeping. Where I do see a problem with communication across different types of troops, it tends to be a linguistic one, so I would say that Canada is very well placed.

In terms of your level of trust with your allies, I don't think I can answer that. That's a question about your national policy and theirs. But—

[Richard Martel]

—and the protection, too.

[Adam Day]

My understanding is that most troops, when they are deployed, have a self-protection aspect to them. You run a team site, and that team site is patrolled by Canadian troops. My understanding is that most of the time you don't tend to rely on other troops for the immediate physical protection of your own.

Where I've seen that in action, troops have protected each other fairly well. In eastern Congo there have been deployments of one nationality towards the team site of another, and those are usually the highest priority to the mission. When you're talking about triage and decisions to deploy troops to protect each other, in my experience, the decision to protect the other UN entities almost always comes first.

[Richard Martel]

I'll share my time.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you. He's sharing his time with me.

Mr. Gowan, you've written that the UN peacekeeping force in Mali is not properly equipped or trained to deal with the terrorist threats faced in Mali. Shouldn't the anti-terrorism aspect of the mission have been left to an organization that does have the proper training and experience in anti-terrorism operations?

[Richard Gowan]

I think that, in the piece you referred to, I was citing a study by the Danish Institute for International Studies of African units in MINUSMA and, certainly, that study did find very, very significant gaps in some of the African units' equipment. We have, as I say, seen African peacekeepers in Mali be particularly vulnerable to various forms of asymmetric attack. I would also say, though, that the UN has been working very hard to make those units more robust and especially to make convoys in Mali less vulnerable to attack.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you.

Go ahead, MP Fisher.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks again, gentlemen.

I'm going to take advantage of the fact that we've got an abundance of riches here, with you sitting in front of us, and ask a question that I asked last Tuesday.

If we encourage and recruit more women to take part in peacekeeping operations through strategies like—I think, Mr. Day, you mentioned the Elsie Initiative—would the mission stand a greater chance of countering violent extremism?

[Adam Day]

I can answer that very briefly with almost certainly yes. There are a number of reasons to increase the role of women in peacekeeping. There's a principled reason, but I'll stick with the effectiveness.

In many of these settings, access to communities, understanding of communities and engagement with communities by the troops are key elements of success. There's an article I can pull up for you. Over time, there is evidence that women are more effective peacekeepers on a range of things, including that. In my experience, one of the key aspects that needs to be fostered is a better, more analytically driven deployment of troops.

The principle is a clear one. Obviously, there are other ways in which UN peacekeepers can engage, for which women are uniquely well placed to do that. When I was working in South Sudan, there was a lot of sexual violence that had taken place in the communities. Having women peacekeepers present there sent a really important message and made the communities more open and receptive to the UN.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Specifically, what roles can or should women be taking in PKOs?

[Adam Day]

All of them and from the top down, including leadership of the mission. I think there's a relatively small number now but, absolutely, political, military and police leadership, across the board.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Gowan, do you want to chime in? I have a question for you as well, if I have time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

You do. You have two minutes.

[Richard Gowan]

Ask away.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

In one of your articles, you said, “the UN also needs to maintain a last-resort option of administering more robust stabilization missions where necessary, though with a focus on securing the space for non-military peacekeeping.” Could you elaborate on that?

[Richard Gowan]

Yes. Although, as I say, in most high-risk environments, multinational forces may be the best option. We should be conscious that, down the road, the UN could be asked to go into somewhere like Yemen. If Mali is tough, Yemen would be a thousand times tougher. If the Security Council, in its wisdom, wanted to put a multilateral force into Yemen, I think it would be necessary for Secretary-General Guterres to say that we cannot do this using standard blue helmet procedures, that we need to have a tougher multinational force. I was envisaging the possibility, which has been discussed on and off over the last decade, of UN forces in Yemen, Libya, or possibly Syria, although I think that is no longer a real option at all.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Day, when it comes to Canada's contribution—I was trying to scribble this down—you talked about reductions in static footprint, which shows the suitability of our contributions. I don't want to put words in your mouth. Could you just touch on that? I was scribbling very quickly when you said it.

[Adam Day]

In the context of broad budgetary cuts, what you see in a lot of missions—and I have 30 seconds to do this—is that the static sites in the deep field are being taken away and are being replaced by quick reaction forces, air assets and unmanned aerial surveillance. When I look at your list of commitments in Vancouver, you're talking about airlift, air task force and quick reaction force. All of those are exactly the kind of capacities that—

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

—exactly what we need. Yes.

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

I'd like to thank you both for your contribution to this very important subject matter. It's very much appreciated as is your time as well.

Before we adjourn, I want to recognize that one of our analysts is leaving, so bear with me.

I'd like to recognize Stéphanie for her hard work on this committee and wish her well in her future endeavours.

Thanks, gentlemen.

[Adam Day]

Thank you.

[Richard Gowan]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

The meeting is adjourned.