Evidence of meeting #112 for National Defence in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was women.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Professor, Dean of Continuing Studies, Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual
I'm not sure. I know that an action plan goes with the strategy. I don't know exactly what they're doing in the action plan in this area. I don't want to speak to it, to be honest. I'm not sure.
Conservative
Professor, Canadian Forces College, As an Individual
I'm in the same position. Work is being done under the chief of military personnel looking into some of these areas, but I'm not sure what the specific status is.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Okay.
Over the past several years there have been a number of suspicious or unexplained deaths at RMC. Is it known whether or not any of the possible contributing factors had anything to do with diversity?
Professor, Dean of Continuing Studies, Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual
Part of the reason for the SSAV—the special staff assistive visit—directed by the chief of defence staff was that he had concerns about the suicides. The SSAV report is public. I don't know that they linked it necessarily to that. I think it was more the climate and leadership that were issues. A lot of them have been corrected.
There is an action plan that goes with the SSAV. I can tell you, for example, that they have upped the rank of some positions and added more military leadership to strengthen the military leadership pillar at RMC.
That's all I can tell you. I don't think there was a specific correlation. It was more about the climate and leadership.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
Thank you.
I want to go back to the conversation we were having earlier when I was asking about the pool of candidates and making sure that we select from the best of the pool of candidates, as opposed to trying to put quotas on individual segments of the population. That was Mr. Okros's position.
Ms. Scoppio, would you agree that this is the best way to do it?
Professor, Dean of Continuing Studies, Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual
As we know, the Employment Equity Act talks about targets. They're not necessarily quotas, which is more of an affirmative action type of measure. I don't think right now they have quotas set up, but they certainly have targets.
Professor, Dean of Continuing Studies, Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual
I think the legislation is there to allow for these special measures. In order to achieve a goal and correct a situation that is historical, we need to use those special measures allowed under the employment equity legislation.
I am in favour of using special measures when needed, remembering that somebody must still be qualified to do the job. We're never, ever going to recruit anybody who's not qualified.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
But will we recruit somebody who is slightly less qualified because they check a couple more boxes than somebody who is more qualified but doesn't check those boxes?
Professor, Dean of Continuing Studies, Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual
You know, a lot of people say to me, “If you have a Ph.D., you're smart.” Academic intelligence is just one intelligence. If we're letting in a woman who has an 85% average, but all other things are equal, over a male who has an 89% or 90% average, I don't know that the woman is going to be less successful as an officer.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
I will go to you, Mr. Okros.
Can you comment a little on how we grow that pool of candidates so that by default it become more diverse and we don't have to worry about the targets because the pool itself represents the targets?
Professor, Canadian Forces College, As an Individual
I agree.
Some of this is about making sure that more Canadians are aware of their Canadian Armed Forces. It goes back to the question from the previous member. One of the challenges of recruiting in Canada is that a lot of people don't understand what the CAF offers.
The other quick comment I would make is that unlike, for example, the public service, with hirings and promotions, what is being assessed at the CAF recruiting centre is potential for the future. Nobody comes in who is qualified to do the job. It's an issue of indicators of optimum potential. That was why in my opening statement I suggested maybe there's a question about the mix of all the indicators. Is the balance right? Is the emphasis right, given what the career requires?
Professor, Dean of Continuing Studies, Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual
If I may just add one point—
Professor, Dean of Continuing Studies, Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual
With regard to the way that some universities recruit, they look at the whole package. If you apply for a master's degree, a lot of times universities are not just looking at your GPA.
Liberal
Professor, Dean of Continuing Studies, Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual
Absolutely. They're looking at your volunteerism. They're looking at the whole individual and not just the academic results.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
Quickly following up on my discussion about recruiting, the Canadian Armed Forces just finished running a bunch of ads showcasing women in the Canadian Armed Forces.
What was your opinion of that ad? Was it successful? Did we do it enough? What type of advertising approach should we be taking?
Professor, Dean of Continuing Studies, Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual
I think it's a very good start. I saw them, and I think they're great.
Again, we need to be more aggressive. If, at the end of the day, there are too many young people coming out of high school who do not even know that the CAF is an option, then we're not doing enough.
