Evidence of meeting #112 for National Defence in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was women.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Professor, Canadian Forces College, As an Individual
I have a quick comment on that one.
I think we need to recognize the multiple platforms and the multiple different ways that young people are acquiring information. It needs to get out through the right mechanisms. Traditional advertising is probably not the right way to do it.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
I'd say that the Canadian Armed Forces is pretty active on Twitter in particular, and to some degree on Facebook, but we need to see more of that out there.
With respect to chaplaincy services, have they kept up with being able to deal with the diversity issues? Are the diversity targets represented within the chaplaincy itself, especially if we look at religious backgrounds, and also in the human resource component that chaplaincy services and counselling provide to all members regardless of religion?
Professor, Canadian Forces College, As an Individual
By comment, I would suggest that this is a question that the chaplain general could answer.
I have done work with the chaplain corps, and I would suggest that they are very proactive. They are very much paying attention to evolutions in Canadian society around both religion and spirituality, and are making sure that they are providing the right services. That means they have been looking at who they are bringing in. The range of different perspectives that are contained within the chaplain corps has expanded significantly.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
Professor Okros, you mentioned earlier about NATO members looking to Canada on how we deal with the diversity piece.
I understand that the Dutch, in particular the Dutch navy, have done a great job, especially on the women in their service. Can you speak to that?
Also, Scandinavian countries may not have as diverse a population as we have, but definitely with women in the military, my impression is they have done a better job than we have.
Professor, Canadian Forces College, As an Individual
They certainly put some focus and emphasis on women in particular.
The conditions of naval service vary. We get into these issues about how long you are going to spend away, where the ships get deployed, the demands. Those who are employed in more coastal defence roles don't have as much time at sea away from home port, which gets into family issues.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
I have too many questions, but not enough time.
As a comment, one of the things, as someone who has hired a lot of people in my lifetime, is that women tend to undersell themselves and men tend to oversell themselves. I would say that you would also want an interpretation and understanding of that as we are trying to recruit.
I think we have a lot more people who could automatically be part of that eligible pool. It's just that you have to make sure that you understand...and are able to ask those questions.
I actually joined the navy for five days over the summer. I met a couple of women on the boat who joined when they were over 45 years old. They had already raised their kids. They loved it. They never knew it was an opportunity for them. They wanted adventure. They found it exciting. They found the exact roles that they wanted, and they could not have been happier.
Just keep in mind that I will ask the question in a minute.
One of the other things is that I represent the largest Portuguese community in the country. Most of the Portuguese in my riding are from the islands. All of their ancestors are boat people. I don't honestly think that anybody has ever come to recruit at any of the high schools in my community. I can assure you that they would be very successful, because it's in their blood.
What I'm trying to ask is, to your knowledge, have there been any efforts to try to...? When you're looking for diversity, you kind of have to understand the people you're trying to go after. You go after boat people. In the navy, if you see who's on the boats, they tend to come from either of the coasts.
Do you have any comments around that, about our active recruitment for those who might be at mid-career, and then also whether we're targeting certain cultures because we know there might be a higher-than-average chance that they would want to enter this field?
Professor, Dean of Continuing Studies, Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual
To your first comment, I would not have applied as a dean if I hadn't been encouraged to do so by somebody who was working in that division. I totally agree with you that a lot of women who would be perfectly capable to be in certain positions or to do certain careers would hesitate. As to why we hesitate, it goes back to what you just said: Women tend to undersell themselves.
How do we fix that? I agree with you, certainly, about having more outreach at different ages. I know for a fact that right here in Kingston, for example, where one of my kids went through high school, no recruiters came to talk to them, yet we know how successful the recruiters from various universities are. A lot of times, kids pick a certain university because the recruiter who went to their school did an awesome job.
Professor, Canadian Forces College, As an Individual
I would make a quick comment. I think you can appreciate in terms of resources the issues about tailored and targeted recruiting campaigns. Again, we're back into the diversity of Canadian society, which makes it hard to be able to do that for every specific community. I think this is a struggle the CAF has in terms of figuring out differential messaging and not wanting to make it appear that it's favouring one group or community over another. There are challenges there in terms of trying to do targeted advertising, messaging, and recruiting in communities.
Liberal
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
One of the things you said earlier in your speech, Ms. Scoppio, is that diversity should equal value added. I represent 19 Wing Comox in my riding, and I've had numerous conversations with people on base around how we promote this and what we do to become more diversity-oriented. I think it's something that's growing in the community, and I want to recognize that.
First, to both of you, in what ways does diversity really enhance military operational effectiveness? I think we need to see it as an asset, and I want you to talk about that.
The other thing is that I have looked through the material I have, and there's very little statistical information about the LGBTQ2 community. I'm wondering if that is something we need to do better.
Professor, Canadian Forces College, As an Individual
I'll go back to one of the reasons for the CAF diversity strategy and some of the CDS directives, and that's the recognition that these diverse world views and experiences are critical for mission success in deployed operations. The Canadian Armed Forces is recognizing that. Trying to facilitate how we do that is a bit of a challenge.
The second part, I think, is this recognition that if you're going to get good at doing that abroad, you should start practising at home. A key thing I use frequently is that the primary job of leaders is to build cohesive, effective teams that work together under arduous circumstances. How do you bring together people from different backgrounds and build that cohesive team? That's the challenge. You need those diverse perspectives to assist in building the team. The military is recognizing that. They're still working their way through figuring out how to do it. It's a leadership issue.
Professor, Dean of Continuing Studies, Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual
Perhaps I can add to that.
I've done some research about soft skills in comprehensive operations. A lot of the operations that the military, especially the Canadian military, are involved with are not necessarily war missions, or only war missions, or only combat operations, so you need to have a very diverse set of skills. Cultural skills would be one of them, with the ability to communicate with diverse people. There are all sorts of skills that are not necessarily all found in one type of person.
As Dr. Okros said, those multiple perspectives on a team will actually be an advantage when you're deployed to an operation and you're trying to build consensus and trying to win the hearts and minds of the people. It's not necessarily just combat.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Do you have anything with regard to the resources on statistics about the LGBTQ2 community? I'm just not seeing a lot. Is it just a lack that we have?
Professor, Canadian Forces College, As an Individual
In terms of the statistical representation, that's not something I can speak to.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Stephen Fuhr
Just before we suspend for committee business and send you on your way, Mark Gerretsen wants a quick follow-up.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
I have just one quick follow-up to the question you were answering for Ms. Dzerowicz.
Regarding recruiting in high schools—your children may have gone to the same high school in Kingston that I went to, for all I know—I'm curious how you feel the general population would feel if CAF started recruiting in high schools, and whether that needs to be part of the strategy in communications. My sense, from having been a municipal politician and a federal politician in my riding, is that there would be a lot of parents who would be pretty upset about that.
Professor, Dean of Continuing Studies, Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual
I think you may be right that there might be issues with that. At the same time, that is a large group of the people who we want to recruit, and the military, in Canada anyway, is not a machine of oppression. Maybe there's an educational piece that needs to happen so that we're not portrayed that way, and then maybe there would be more buy-in from some of the parents.
Professor, Canadian Forces College, As an Individual
I'd like to make a quick comment, if I could. I'd also recommend that we consider the influencers, the people who influence young people. Young people who join when they are coming out of high school are not making that decision on their own, so I think it's a matter of educating parents, coaches, community leaders, and so on. That's the context we need to address.
Professor, Dean of Continuing Studies, Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual
I have just one more point. In the states, the recruiting happens directly by contacting mothers, for example.