National Defence Committee on April 11th, 2019

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Welcome to the defence committee.

I would like to welcome the Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff, Lieutenant-General Paul Wynnyk.

Could you introduce your colleagues? Then I'll leave it to your for your opening remarks.

[Lieutenant-General Paul Wynnyk, Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff, Department of National Defence]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

This is Dr. Denise Preston, from the SMRC; Lieutenant-General Charles Lamarre—who you've seen many times before—who is chief of military personnel; and Commodore Rebecca Patterson, who has appeared before this committee before as well.

Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this study on diversity in the Canadian Armed Forces. I understand that as part of that study you wanted an update on the status of Operation Honour. As the Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff, I've been tasked by our chief of the defence staff, General Vance, to oversee the conduct of Operation Honour, which is, of course, a multi-faceted initiative that very much requires a team approach. For that reason, I have here with me the team that I just introduced.

Operation Honour is increasingly making the Canadian Armed Forces a safer and more welcoming environment for all, and the leadership of the Canadian Armed Forces is committed more than ever before to stamping out sexual misconduct.

A few weeks ago, our fourth progress report on Operation Honour was published. This report offered a comprehensive overview of what the Canadian Armed Forces has accomplished to date in an effort to eliminate sexual misconduct. It provides analysis, statistics and information on a variety of initiatives that have been undertaken across the Canadian Armed Forces.

My opening remarks today will constitute a brief synopsis of that report and touch on a few of the more recent developments with regard to Operation Honour.

Operation Honour was initiated in 2015. Over the past three plus years, we have significantly evolved and are confident that we have completed important foundational work, which was essential to addressing sexual misconduct and effectively supporting those affected by it.

It's important to state up front, however, that while we are consistently looking at ways to improve our approach, we haven't gotten everything right and we certainly recognize there is much left to do. We've learned a great deal through our own experience and analysis, through collaborative work with the sexual misconduct response centre, from the assessment done by the Office of the Auditor General of Canada, and from feedback provided by external experts and stakeholders.

Some of the measures that we implemented along the way have resulted in unintended consequences, and some of the initiatives and changes did not deliver the desired outcomes. For instance, we have not made sufficient progress in key areas such as policy and strategic cultural change, and that has hampered our overall effort.

We have acknowledged that more work is required, specifically with respect to the 10 recommendations made by the external review authority, Madam Deschamps. Those 10 recommendations remain the primary barometer of our progress and we are committed to implementing them to the fullest extent possible. Of course, that commitment is explicitly stated in the defence policy “Strong, Secure, Engaged”.

Sexual misconduct, however, is a difficult and complex issue to address; there is still much to learn. In light of the Auditor General's findings and our own internal review on Operation Honour, we've assessed our progress on the implementation of those recommendations and have determined that adjustments are required in our approach in order to achieve their intent.

Currently, we feel that two of the external review authority's recommendations have been fully achieved. Those are fully acknowledging the problem, and undertaking to address it and simplifying the harassment resolution process.

One more has been achieved in a manner that meets the intent of the recommendation while remaining consistent with Canadian Armed Forces structural, functional and jurisdictional parameters. That is allowing victims of sexual assault to request transfer of complaints to civilian authorities.

We continue to make progress to varying degrees on the remaining seven: establishing a cultural change strategy; establishing a centre of accountability; allowing independent reporting without triggering a formal complaint process; developing definitions and terminology; developing a unified policy approach; assigning responsibility for providing, coordinating and monitoring victim support to the support centre; and, finally, assigning to the centre the responsibility for the development of the training curriculum and for the monitoring of training on matters related to inappropriate sexual behaviour.

I will now briefly expand on what we are doing to address these deficiencies.

We're currently developing a campaign plan to focus our efforts moving forward. The plan will be informed by advice from external experts. It will have clear lines of effort, as well as dedicated resources to ensure success. It will drive our work in areas such as prevention, engagement, policy development, cultural change and finally—perhaps most significantly—victim support.

Support for victims has been and will continue to be our main effort for the next phase of Operation Honour. It will be our priority to ensure that victims remain confident that the Canadian Armed Forces will support them through all administrative and legal processes. We will ensure they have access to the services and support required to recover from harm.

The sexual misconduct response centre, led by Dr. Preston, plays an essential role in providing victim support, and its mandate is being expanded. It is independent from the military chain of command, reports to the deputy minister, and is central to refocusing and enhancing our efforts. That is why Dr. Preston is here with me today: as an independent voice. The Canadian Armed Forces' senior leadership fully supports the expansion of the centre's mandate and has confirmed that it will be resourced accordingly.

Moving forward, the centre will play a greater role in our overall approach to sexual misconduct. As recommended by Madam Deschamps in her 2015 report, the centre will drive institutional cultural change in a number of ways. It will provide expert opinion, contain subject matter authority, and provide advice on the development of policy, training, strategy and evaluation of programs related to sexual misconduct.

That said, the Canadian Armed Forces will remain responsible and accountable for Operation Honour and its implementation.

The sexual misconduct response centre will provide an authoritative voice to guide, support and monitor progress, helping the Canadian Armed Forces successfully implement and sustain these efforts.

The Canadian Armed Forces' relationship with the sexual misconduct response centre is still evolving. Our goal is to achieve a posture that will be effective for the Canadian Armed Forces, while not detracting from the independence of the centre. Let there be no doubt that the Canadian Armed Forces is fully committed to this.

Now, more than ever, we are humbled by the scope of the problem and the challenges we face in dealing with sexual misconduct effectively.

We are working hard to deepen our understanding of the problem, by analyzing existing information, connecting with stakeholders, conducting regular research as well as working with our allies and sharing best practices.

This work will inform the the development of the armed forces' Operation Honour campaign plan.

There is, quite frankly, no off-the-shelf solution to implement. There are no proven models to follow for an organization like ours. We need to find a Canadian solution that works for our people and for our organization.

We are taking into account external information and advice, and we're going to find better ways to ensure that it continually guides our work. We're going to push harder in those areas where we are not as far along as we should be. We will continue our research and take action on how best to address the harmful attitudes and behaviours that contribute to sexual misconduct. Those behaviours have absolutely no place in our culture.

Above all, we are going to ensure that we put our people's needs first. People are at the centre of everything we do, and the way that we support and treat them has a direct impact on our operational effectiveness and the trust that Canadians place in the Canadian Armed Forces.

Diversity and inclusiveness is about ensuring that all our members feel welcome in our organization. It is imperative that the Canadian Armed Forces foster a culture based on trust, respect and dignity for everyone. We believe that Operation Honour is making a difference in that regard. However, we still have a long way to go to eliminate the serious and persistent threat to the welfare of our people and to the long-term health of the Canadian Armed Forces.

Thank you again for your interest today.

I will be pleased to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you, General.

The floor is yours, Dr. Preston.

[Denise Preston, Executive Director, Sexual Misconduct Response Centre, Department of National Defence]

Thank you for giving me an opportunity to speak today as part of your study on diversity in the Canadian Armed Forces.

I am pleased to be here to give you an update on the evolution of the sexual misconduct response centre, as well as a snapshot of the projects my team and I are working on.

Since its inception in September 2015, the sexual misconduct response centre has built its operations on the provision of response and support services to members of the Canadian Armed Forces affected by sexual misconduct. lt offers confidential, bilingual, client-centred services to members 24-7 and may be accessed by members no matter where in the world they may be. The centre's counsellors all have expertise in working with survivors of sexual trauma and do not have a duty to report. While these services filled a critical gap, they are not sufficient to address the range of needs affected members have within the complexity of the Canadian Armed Forces environment. There is also a need for better coordination of support services and specialized training for those who provide support.

These observations related to support services, together with the results of internal reviews and the observations of the Office of the Auditor General, identified a requirement for a significant revision of and expansion to the mandate of the sexual misconduct response centre. ln addition to our primary mandate of providing support to CAF members who are affected by sexual misconduct, we will provide expert advice and recommendations on a range of issues related to the prevention of and response to sexual misconduct and will monitor the Canadian Armed Forces' implementation of our recommendations. As a priority, we are working on a new version of our mandate. Here is an idea of how we plan to deliver on this new mandate.

To start, we are in the midst of developing an enhanced response and support coordination program, otherwise known as a case management service. This program will provide better coordinated and broader support for Canadian Armed Forces members who have experienced sexual misconduct regardless of whether or not they have reported the incident. Members will have a single point of contact in this sexual misconduct response centre who will provide case management services, assistance in navigating both internal and external services or processes, in-person support, practical assistance in completing forms or victim impact statements, and accompaniment.

These services will be available to affected members, with consent, from the time of first disclosure until such time as they indicate that support is no longer required. The model is based on best practices in the field. In fact, we hired an external consultant with decades of experience in a parallel provincial victim support program to advise us. lt is also based on gaps identified in internal and external reviews of Canadian Armed Forces services available to victims and on consultations with retired and still-serving members who have experienced sexual misconduct.

We want to focus on ensuring that members are at the centre of our response and that their needs guide our actions. More information on this program will be available in the coming months as we continue to progress to the next stages of its implementation.

Secondly, the centre will also fund, through a contribution program, sexual assault centres located near the largest bases and wings in Canada to increase support options for victims of sexual assault outside the Canadian Armed Forces. This program is just getting underway.

Third, the centre will play an important role in guiding the national victims strategy, which is in the early stages of planning.

ln relation to providing independent, expert advice, SMRC has provided recommendations to CAF on a number of recent policy documents and on the content and process for developing the new policy on sexual misconduct. Other examples include membership in the sexual assault review program established by the Canadian Forces provost marshal to review unfounded cases of sexual assault, the provision of advice on cases of sexual misconduct within the military justice system or other complaint processes, and membership on numerous relevant working groups with CAF partners. These examples speak to CAF's increasing recognition of the need for and value of specialized advice related to sexual misconduct and to the increasing credibility of the sexual misconduct response centre. These types of engagements are essential to improving coordinated victim support services in direct accordance with Canada's defence policy, “Strong, Secure, Engaged”.

While I strive to work collaboratively with Canadian Armed Forces service providers, I remain committed to the centre's independence, as recommended in the external review in 2015. An external advisory council was established last year to enhance and support the centre's independence. In the last few months, the council was instrumental in providing expert advice and recommendations on important interim documents directly related to the implementation of Operation Honour and the external review authority's recommendations. These CAF documents include a clearer definition of sexual misconduct and a decision tree tool to guide members of the chain of command in responding to reported incidents.

An important inclusion in the decision tree is guidance on including, consulting and informing affected members at each step of the process. I'm impressed with the combined breadth of expertise on the external advisory council in the realms of victim support, legislation, policy and perpetrators, to name a few. I'm also impressed by their commitment to this work and the diligence with which they apply themselves to provide the advice we seek.

I believe that external advice and expertise is crucial to the success of the implementation of Op Honour as well as the centre's mandate. I encourage my team to seek outside advice and expertise as often as possible, which is why last December the SMRC hosted a forum on sexual misconduct where partners from the Five Eyes nations gathered for the first time to advance a common understanding of what is essential to improve support to victims of sexual misconduct within the military and to enhance prevention efforts. I was immediately invested in the forum because we had the incredible opportunity to exchange best practices on how to effectively address sexual misconduct in our respective organizations and how to best meet the needs of military members.

One of the best practices that came out of that forum was the importance of grounding our work within an evidence-based prevention framework. I recently hired an expert with many years of clinical research and administrative experience in the prevention, assessment and treatment of sexual misconduct. She will develop a comprehensive prevention plan and contribute to refining policy regarding perpetrators.

In terms of diversity, the StatsCan survey on sexual misconduct in the CAF indicated that members of the LGBTQ2 community are victimized at higher rates. SMRC staff have received specialized training from community agencies and are researching enhancements to service delivery to better meet the needs of these and other specialized groups.

In particular, they're considering whether the prevalence, circumstances, dynamics and impacts of sexual misconduct are different for these groups; whether they experience any unique barriers to reporting; and what service modifications might be necessary. The needs of diverse clients will be considered in the national victims support strategy that is under development. I am also seeking to add expertise on these issues to the membership of the external advisory council.

Finally, as we continue to identify and respond to developing trends by providing expert advice and monitoring CAF's efforts, my focus will remain on ensuring the provision of efficient, effective and compassionate support that is responsive to members' needs, helping them return to work in a healthy and respectful workplace.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you, Dr. Preston.

I'm going to yield the floor to MP Robillard. The floor is yours.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the witnesses for being here today.

One of the objectives of the diversity strategy is to improve the evaluation of diversity policies. The witnesses we have heard in this study have often stressed the need for better measurement of the current diversity situation as well as the progress being made.

Can you give us some more details about the new ways of measuring diversity in the Armed Forces?

[LGen Paul Wynnyk]

Thank you for your question.

There are a number of ways that we're measuring diversity. I know that several of the members who are with me here today have talked about that before. I'd just like to stress once again that diversity is not just with regard to the female component. We've talked about the LGBTQ component as well the indigenous component.

In this particular case, I will hand off that question to the commander of military personnel, who is tracking all of that as part of his duties.

[Lieutenant-General Charles Lamarre, Commander, Military Personnel Command, Department of National Defence]

Thank you very much.

Thank you for the opportunity to answer your question, Mr. Robillard.

We conduct surveys. We make sure that our recruiting personnel keep track of who is entering the Canadian Armed Forces.

The annual recruiting process corresponds to the financial year. Of those who have joined this year, 17.3% are women, 12.6% are members of visible minorities and 3.5% are indigenous. We are seeking to have those percentages increase, while keeping an eye on the current situation. As for the composition of our personnel, the Canadian Armed Forces has the following objectives: 25% women, 8.4% members of visible minorities and, by 2026, 2.9% indigenous.

We have other data that allow us to see where we are at the moment. Right now, the armed forces has 15.7% women. In the last two years, the number of women in the armed forces has increased by about 1,300. For indigenous people and members of visible minorities, the figures are 2.8% and 8.7% respectively. That is quite significant for us. We are measuring everything and keeping an eye on it all.

We have established a strategy to increase diversity in the Canadian Armed Forces. We have to maintain those percentages, but we also have to make sure that the policies in place support those people. That includes all kinds of things, including religious accommodation. For example, a woman who is currently in a training program at the Leadership and Recruit School at Saint-Jean, asked to be able to wear a niqab. She decided not to wear it, but she can wear something else to represent her religion. Members of the Sikh minority have the right to wear turbans. We provide them with accommodations so that they can continue training in the Canadian Armed Forces.

All this is in place in order to increase diversity, because it is important for us. The research that my human resources research and evaluation team is doing at the moment proves that it is possible to implement solutions for those who want to join the armed forces and to increase diversity therein.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you.

In recent weeks, a number of witnesses have told us that the difficulty in retaining women is related to their family responsibilities and the lack of support in the armed forces.

Can you tell us about the current provisions for women who want to blend their careers and their family responsibilities?

[LGen Charles Lamarre]

These days, that is just as much an issue for men as for women. That is why we have established very generous policies for those who have to take care of their children. Maternity leave lasts for twelve months and can be extended to up to 18. That allows parents to take care of their children and to create a solid bond with them before sending them to daycare, like all other Canadians. The parents need help when they return to work.

Even more important is that we have established very good policies so that women who take maternity leave are not penalized. We have the merit board. Those women are not demoted as they would be if they were simply absent. We look at their last evaluation and we give them the same score. A number of women have had one, two or three children and continue to progress satisfactorily through the Canadian Armed Forces.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

I have one final question.

One of the aspects of your recruitment strategy is a social media presence. Can you tell us about the results of campaigns such as Women in Force?

[LGen Charles Lamarre]

Absolutely.

We can see people's interest in the Canadian Armed Forces on our website. People read what we post there and the ability to ask questions is very popular. They ask whether they can do this or that if they join the forces. It interests Canadians greatly. We also know that a lot of women visit our site.

What is interesting in all this is the interaction on different platforms. For example. the interaction with our female recruiters on websites or in podcasts is very popular. People sign in, ask questions and take an interest in what is happening. It helps to eliminate things that could discourage some people from joining.

So it eliminates the myth.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Welcome, Pierre, the floor is yours.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In terms of the nature of the service, Operation Honour shows us that recruitment issues are the same as they were 30 years ago when I joined up. The same problems existed. At the time, diversity was less of an issue. They wanted to recruit more women. I was in the infantry; they wanted women. Women joined the infantry but, after basic training, they decided either to ask for a discharge or for a change in career. I am not sure that the situation has changed much, with some exceptions. Women who are born for that career will continue to pursue it. There is a woman general now, but she is the exception.

Are we not trying to tamper with nature too much? We talk about culture changes. I am not talking about sexual harassment, but about joining up, about the nature of military work in terms of what is involved in armed combat. It is completely different with the logistics areas. In the combat trades, by tampering with nature, don't we end up shooting ourselves in the foot? We have been trying to recruit women for 30 years. Now we are talking about policies. We are politicians and you are generals, but what about the people in the field? You are saying that, after four years, you do not have any real results. I remember that, when I was a young lieutenant or captain, we received directives from Ottawa. We just looked at them.

What should we be doing today about the people in the field, in your opinion? Should we continue to force things, or should we find a different way to view the service, perhaps by proposing something else?

[LGen Paul Wynnyk]

It's a very good question. I joined the Canadian Armed Forces in 1981 and the situation has evolved substantially. To directly answer your question, what we want to do is create an environment in which there are absolutely no policy or structural barriers, and where young women are free to choose whatever they want to do. I do take it that the combat arms is not necessarily an attractive profession for women. It's not necessarily an attractive profession for men, quite frankly, but there should be absolutely no barriers in pursuing that line if you want to go in. We are getting there.

With regard to your comments on generals, we have 13 general and flag officers, but for the first time in some time we have a combat arms general, Brigadier-General Jennie Carignan. Some of you have met her. She has worked for me. She is leading a cohort of incredible female combat-tested leaders, quite frankly, many of whom have served in Afghanistan and proven that there are simply no barriers to doing what you need to do when you go in the field. They are still in a minority, but they are setting the example as we go forward. We have twice as many female general and flag officers as we had five years ago; we're up to 13. That's only going to continue to climb as we go forward.

I'm confident that we need to continue to make sure there are no explicit or implicit barriers as we go forward. General Lamarre is looking at a wholesale policy review to make sure there aren't things we have missed that are actually informal barriers to women progressing and choosing whatever profession they choose. I'm very confident, actually very excited quite frankly, that, as I said, we've got a cohort of combat arms females moving forward. We've had female commanding officers of artillery regiments, engineer regiments and a combat engineer regiment. We have not yet had regular infantry or armoured regiment ones, but we've had a reserve armoured regiment female CO as well. Those barriers are coming down.

General Lamarre, I don't know if you'd like to add anything.

[LGen Charles Lamarre]

I certainly would, and that extends throughout all of our units, our service battalions and the army, our large organization, some 600 strong. Quite a few of them have been in the command of women, who have done extremely well and continue to do well in the progressions for their careers, getting promoted to general officer ranks. There are a couple more this year and, if I'm not mistaken, that will bring us up to 15.

I think those are good, but more importantly there is also, as the vice chief of the defence staff was indicating, the elimination of the types of barriers that would have prevented them in the past. That includes everything that causes a higher rate of injuries. There's the whole idea of how the kit is fitted and everything else to make sure that doesn't cause them any problems. The other aspect is to make sure that we maintain our fighting capability, and that's an important point. Sometimes people think that you're bringing it down and it's not going to be quite the same. Nothing could be further from the truth. The standards for how we fight have to be maintained, because ultimately that's what we do.

The training that these women do and are successful in doing, and then the operations they conduct, are at the same standard, which is a very high standard and very demanding. You're right that we have quite a few occupations that are more and more popular. We tend to have a lot of our women grouped in about five similar occupations. That's why we want to broaden this up. Part of it is actually to let folks know that it's available. Hence, there's the emphasis that we're putting on making sure that Canadian women have the opportunity to see just what is available to them. This where we're going to be going in the next year and a half, to put an emphasis on making sure that this is known to them.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Do you have statistics on the cases of sexual misconduct? Do you know whether they occur more during operations when soldiers are together for long periods, or when they are on the bases, at work, or out of uniform? Do you know whether they are divided according to the environment, and in which situation they most occur?

[LGen Paul Wynnyk]

Before I potentially turn over to Dr. Preston and/or Commodore Patterson, I want to talk a little bit about statistics and data collection in general.

We're in our infancy in many ways of collecting that data we need. There is a bespoke database now called the Operation Honour tracking and analysis system that's been designed specifically to track sexual misconduct and all those parameters that you mentioned. There are many other databases out there on the military police side, as well, and a few other areas that actually collect that, but I'm not sure that we have enough data right now.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Okay.

[LGen Paul Wynnyk]

Dr. Preston, do you have anything to add in 10 seconds or so?

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

There will be time at the end. We can circle back on that if there's a will to do that.

Before I move to MP Garrison, I know combat arms is a bit of a tough sell, but your organization needs 270 pilots, so I would encourage all those who want to join to fly airplanes to do so as soon as possible.

[LGen Charles Lamarre]

[Inaudible—Editor] used to fly, as well.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Paul-Hus' question reminded me of a meme that's been circulating. One of the odd things in Canadian society is that men choose high-paying occupations like doctor, lawyer and CEO, while women continue to choose lower-paying occupations like female doctor, female lawyer and female CEO. I think we have to acknowledge that there are barriers. I've seen many of you here several times. I still want to acknowledge that the Canadian Forces has done a good job in acknowledging it has a problem, both with diversity and with sexual misconduct, in contrast to most other institutions in our society.

That said, I know you'll hold yourselves to high standards and we're going to hold you to high standards on performance on that. That acknowledgement is lacking in many other parts of Canadian society, so I think we're off to a good start.

I'm going to ask a question about two different things. I'll ask you, General Wynnyk. What do you see as the main barriers to making progress on diversity right now? Is that funding? You mentioned data. What are the main barriers to making faster progress on diversity? Is it recruiting? Where is the stumbling block?

[LGen Paul Wynnyk]

I will open this up to my colleagues after my comments.

I think it's just a general awareness across society that, once again, we are open for business. We would like to recruit, and traditionally we have recruited over the years from that white male cohort. That hasn't changed in 50 or 60 years. I think there are a lot of demographics that we have to do a better job of tapping into—and perhaps General Lamarre would like to elaborate on that as well—particularly in large urban areas where we have large immigrant populations who, once again, may not have any perception about the Canadian Armed Forces, but they may have a potentially negative perception about the military in general, depending on what countries they have come from, because we bring many refugees into Canada.

I think we need to do a much better job of, once again, focusing on the indigenous population. The indigenous population of Canada has a rich history of military service. If I recall from my time commanding in the army and being an indigenous peoples champion, I think we were up to about 7% in the Canadian army in the 1950s. As you're aware, we're under 3% right now, but we are doing a relatively good job, in my view, particularly on the reserves side with the indigenous programs that we have spoken about previously, attracting more indigenous Canadians and reflecting on the fact that they come from a warrior culture, and we are a warrior culture. There's actually a very rich indigenous heritage in the Canadian Armed Forces.

Those would be my initial thoughts, if any of my colleagues would like to add to that.