National Defence Committee on April 4th, 2017

[Jody Thomas]

When I was commissioner of the Coast Guard, certainly I was part of the deputy minister governance committee that was looking at both shipyards, ensuring that there were no or minimal gaps between builds. The same situation is true in Vancouver shipyards between the offshore fishing science vessel and the offshore oceanographic science vessel.

There isn't a solution yet. The assistant deputy ministers of Public Services and Procurement Canada, Defence, Coast Guard, ISED, and Treasury Board are all very engaged in looking at what the options are. Can we advance work? In Vancouver it's easier because of the number of builds. Can they take in other commercial work in the interim? Can Irving build, as was in the paper the other day, an additional Arctic offshore patrol ship and potentially sell it to somebody?

The cost and benefit of every single option is being looked at now. I haven't seen the outcome of that work. They've been at it for a couple of months. It's big money we're talking about, with serious consequences to getting it wrong. So they don't have an outcome, but it's certainly seizing the deputy minister community involved in shipbuilding.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

I'll give the floor over to Mr. Fisher.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for being here.

I'm very interested in the mental health of our men and women who serve. You are the champion of mental health at the Department of National Defence. Tell me a little bit about what you bring to the table. Do you see an opportunity here to change things, to think outside the box, or do you feel that this will mostly be status quo, maybe with a few tweaks?

[Jody Thomas]

I think there's a huge opportunity. Thank you for the opportunity to speak about this. It's something that I'm quite passionate about. I think there are huge opportunities to think outside the box. I think there are so many elements to the mental health issue that I can't put a bow around them and wrap them up, but ensuring that there's medical support for serving and released members is critical. It's easier when people are within the system than relying on the provincial health system. That's something we're looking at with Veterans Affairs and that team.

The critical element, and it doesn't matter whether you're a civilian or a kid in high school or a serving member of the armed forces, is reducing the stigma around having the discussion about how you're feeling. Mental health illnesses are no different from physical illnesses. We have to have that conversation with people.

I'm a passionate advocate for youth mental health in my private time. I support the Do It For Daron initiative. Luke Richardson was my daughter's hockey coach, so I've seen the devastation and the courage of a family affected by suicide. I think what they have highlighted in terms of reducing stigma—having conversations, giving people a safe space to express how they're feeling—is really critical. Then in the workplace, it's about teaching managers, supervisors, and commanding officers—again, it doesn't matter whether they are civilian or military—how to respond to that. Give people tools.

If somebody comes to work with a broken leg, we know how to deal with them. If somebody comes to work with a sore back and can't lift that day, we know how to deal with them. If somebody comes to work feeling depressed or having problems with anxiety or suicidal thoughts, we don't know how to deal with that because we haven't equipped our managers broadly enough.

I've been briefed by the team of very energetic people looking at mental health within the Department of National Defence. It's a tripartite approach. We have a bargaining agent lead, which I think is critical. We have a military lead, and we have a civilian senior manager lead—who would be me. We're not thinking inside the box. We will do anything we can to have this conversation. There are a lot of campaigns out there. Bell Let's Talk is one of them. CAF was very engaged with that last year. But there are other things out there, and it doesn't matter whether it's national or small, such as in a very small work group. Anything that gives people the opportunity to say, “I have a problem and here's how we're going to deal with it in the workspace”, is important.

There isn't a pill and there isn't one solution that's going to work for everybody. So it's about understanding the range of problems and giving managers, uniformed or civilian, the knowledge, the training, the understanding, the compassion, all of those things, to deal with the problem.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you. That's encouraging. I get the sense that you could go on and on about that.

[Jody Thomas]

I really could.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

We have a phrase that we use sometimes, “Nothing About Us Without Us”. I would encourage you to reach out. Ten years ago, 12 years ago, 20 years ago, I think the culture was to keep it inside and lock it up. Now the culture's changing. I've seen it in my family. People are willing to speak and looking for people to speak to on this. So I encourage you to reach out to those who suffer for suggestions.

On value for money and efficiencies, having only been 17 days into the job, I'm sure you haven't nailed down exactly what you want to do, but you're bringing a lot of experience to the table.

I speak to a lot of people who feel that their voices aren't heard. They have all kinds of ideas and suggestions for efficiencies and value for money and things that could be more streamlined and done in a better manner. I'm probably running out of time. I would encourage you to reach out to folks as well, to break down the ground level and take some of their suggestions. It probably is a great idea to go down to the ground level and ask those folks what they're thinking or what they would do if they were in your shoes.

Thank you.

[Jody Thomas]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

I think that's it for our questions.

We have committee business. I want to thank you for coming and speaking to us today. You have an impressive resumé, and after listening to you for an hour, I have every confidence that you'll do well. I wish you the best of luck in your position.

We will suspend.

[Proceedings continue in camera]