National Defence Committee on Oct. 30th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Ms. Romanado is next.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you so much for being here today. It's a real pleasure to see you again after our spoof videos on women in defence and security. It's a real pleasure, and I'm honoured to have you all here today.

We heard a little bit about SSE. We talked a little bit about the fact that we went out and talked to folks. I've been to 12 bases since March, talking to military, to veterans, and most importantly, to the families. I'm the mother of two serving members, so in terms of the regular force, you got two out of me, and that's all you get.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

With respect to transition, though, as parliamentary secretary to the Minister of Veterans Affairs, I can say that we've heard a lot about the difficulties military members experience in having to transition due to medical release, especially the difficulties for the families who are supporting them. Given that SSE has an objective of increasing the regular force by 3,500 and the reserve force by 1,500 and that we just heard a little bit about how we want to have as flexible a workforce as possible, I'd like to get your opinions on how we can help support those who are transitioning out of the military and how we can be creative in keeping them in the family a little longer.

I know the CDS alluded to that at the joint suicide prevention strategy in terms of the universality of service, the different classifications of employee. Could you talk to us about that and give us your thoughts on trying to keep members in the forces longer? We've invested millions of dollars in their training and we'd like to keep them in the family.

Could you elaborate? Thank you.

[Jody Thomas]

I can start, and then I'll ask Bill to continue, as he'll be taking on the responsibility for this file.

The CDS has been direct and very clear that there is a difference between employability and deployability. We need to look very carefully at universality of service and how we can retain some of the very talented and well-trained people who still can serve a function within the Canadian Armed Forces, even though they may not potentially be able to be deployed. He's looking at those policies with the commander of military personnel, and it's a complex situation. We have to get it right, because if we make mistakes, we compound problems.

Again, it's one of those things that we're having continual and thoughtful discussion about, which I think is useful. We're not just putting pen to paper right away and leaping to a conclusion about how this is going to work.

We have created, as you know, transition units. Those transition units are really critical, because we're no longer releasing people until they're ready to be released, until the foundations for their future employment, for how they're going to manage their lives upon release, for how their families are going to cope, are in place. That's extremely important.

We forget that people come into this organization often at age 17, and it's all they know. It's all their families know. It's all of their friends, all of their relationships. In many branches of the armed forces, everything is centred around the base. Then when that cord is cut, they feel very isolated. The work that the chief of the defence staff is doing, again with the commander of military personnel, is looking at ensuring that we don't cut that cord too quickly, that people are ready emotionally, physically, financially. We've done all that transition work with them so that they understand and are ready for what's ahead of them.

At the same time, the Department of National Defence should be the employer of choice for people transitioning out of the Canadian Armed Forces. We should be trying to find as many jobs as we can for them within the department and within the public service, which is a very good thing. However, the benefit of some of the attention that has been received by Veterans Affairs and the department post-Invictus, as an example, is the growing number of private sector employers who want to employ people who are transitioning out of the armed forces. I think we are benefiting from an all-time high, probably since World War II, of appreciation for the quality of people who serve in the forces, their dedication to this country, and the fact that they can be employable in any number of industries and private sector organizations.

We are passionate about this, and there is a lot of work going on. The bottom line is the chief's direction that we don't release people until they're ready.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Mr. Bezan is next.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Congratulations to all of you on your appointments. I know you'll do well in your positions.

Ms. Thomas, we've met on numerous occasions, and I know there is nobody better for this job than you.

Commodore Bernatchez, you were replying earlier to questions from Ms. Alleslev about the court martial comprehensive review. Are you going to make that report public?

[Cmdre Geneviève Bernatchez]

Yes, and thank you for allowing me to clarify what I would like to do. The default position will be to make public as much of it as possible, and that would be done through the Office of the Judge Advocate General's website.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you.

As a follow-up to Mr. Garrison's comments on Bill C-15 —I believe I was parliamentary secretary at the time we brought that through—quite a bit of concern was being expressed at that time by civilian organizations like the Canadian Bar Association about transparency, accountability, and how summary convictions were being applied in the military.

In the implementation process going forward, is there going to be more of that transparency and sharing with Canadians on how convictions are reached and punishment is meted out?

[Cmdre Geneviève Bernatchez]

Over the last several months, the director of military prosecutions has had much more engagement with Canadian media to do just that, to explain to the Canadian public the process that was followed and the results.

We saw a little of that last Monday. This is as a result of an engagement with Canadian media to ensure education was being provided. We'll see more of that moving forward.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Mr. Venner, when you talked about the defence policy, you said that a lot of it was shaped after what Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom had done in theirs.

With your background in foreign affairs, were you not at all concerned that the U.K. and Australia in particular did their policy reviews on defence and foreign affairs in concert? A foreign affairs policy informs the defence policy, and the defence policy helps with projection of a foreign policy. Why was that step missed in the Canadian process?

[Gordon Venner]

I can't speak to why the government decided to do a defence policy review and not a foreign policy review. It's a decision above my pay grade.

The United Kingdom did their policy review not just in the context of a foreign policy review but also in the context of an entire government spending review. They did an A-base review of every department in the government; defence was only one part of it. That may have had something to do with part of the logic behind why they chose to go the way they did.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

But if you look at the way the U.K. and the Australians wrote theirs.... One thing I'm very happy to see was that in our own policy review process that we took on in our consultations, we put our soldiers, sailors, and those employed in the air force front and centre. They are the key part of the resource that we have as the military. They were at the beginning of the policy, and I support that 100%.

However, some of the criticism we've heard is that it's only in chapter 4 that we get down to geopolitics and geostrategy and the threat environment. You said that it's only seven pages out of a 148-page document. Some of the criticism is that the threat analysis should have been further up in the report and it should have been more substantive than what we've seen.

Mr. Matthews, in your bio and in your remarks you mentioned that you serve on the board of directors of the Royal Ottawa Mental Health Centre. How long have you been doing that?

[William Matthews]

I've been doing that for approximately four years.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

You're doing this as a volunteer?

[William Matthews]

Yes, absolutely.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I appreciate your doing that. The Royal is a great organization, and the work they're doing on operational stress injuries for veterans and our current serving members.... Your volunteerism is to be commended.

[William Matthews]

Thank you.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

How much more time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

You have 30 seconds.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Will we have a chance to circle back?

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Yes, we will.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Okay.

Mr. Matthews, to follow up on Mr. Hoback's comments about the challenges with procurement and the comment that we need more procurement specialists, how are we going to do that? Can we do that within the Department of National Defence, and move military procurement strictly as a national defence initiative?

[William Matthews]

Procurement recruitment is a government-wide issue. Obviously defence is a big consumer of procurement specialists, as well as the department of PSPC. That recruitment plan needs to be joint at some levels. Obviously there is a specialty in military procurement.

Our big seller in recruiting is that it's going to be interesting work. That is our competitive advantage over others. You're buying things that are just fascinating to buy.

The way we can do it includes partnerships with universities. We have a partnership with the Telfer School of Management at the University of Ottawa to train folks. There is going to be more of that sort of thing, getting out to colleges and being proactive and so on.

The second piece we have to look at, and we've just started this internally, is if corporate organizations in Canada are downsizing, is there any way we can get those folks up to speed more quickly? I don't know the answer to that yet. We've just floated that question and it's early days.

It's about getting the right people, not just putting bums in chairs, frankly.