Evidence of meeting #67 for National Defence in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nato.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Professor, Royal Military College of Canada, Department of Defence Studies, As an Individual
Sure.
Peace is much more than the absence of war—
4 p.m.
Professor, Royal Military College of Canada, Department of Defence Studies, As an Individual
We sometimes talk about the negative peace, which is the absence of war, and the positive peace, which is the presence of co-operation, consultation, and engagement, and these programs are really important. It's one of the reasons that Canada pushed, at the development of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, to have the political and economic aspects. These build ties, and now NATO has very wisely created the partnership for peace to bring other nations into it. It's a way to build relationships with those nations, and in the end the only secure peace will be a positive peace in which you can withstand the trials of extremists who are trying to challenge it.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Leona Alleslev Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Tell us also what lessons we can take from the UN and what we should be advocating from that to NATO, as you highlighted in your speech, and how we might go about doing that.
4:05 p.m.
Professor, Royal Military College of Canada, Department of Defence Studies, As an Individual
For me, the number one lesson of the UN is the importance of dialogue. Even during the height of the Cuban missile crisis, there were still negotiations being done at UN headquarters in a dialogue initiated by the UN Secretary-General. It's at those key moments that a few words can make the difference between World War III and not.
I would say to keep the dialogue open. Find some means of partnership or co-operation so that we don't entirely demonize the enemy. Even when Gorbachev came into the politburo, there was a great amount of suspicion. We didn't trust this guy and we wouldn't work with him, but the fact is that there were some voices saying that we had to give Gorbachev a chance and we had to see what he really wanted.
We didn't do enough engagement with Gorbachev. We made the mistake then; let's not make it again. When we see initiatives that are being taken by Russia that we can actually support....
Let me give you an example. Russia has destroyed its chemical weapons arsenal. The United States has not yet been able to do that, for financial reasons, but that's something that should be applauded.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Leona Alleslev Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
That's the strength of UN–NATO co-operation. Now highlight some of the differences between a NATO mission and a UN mission and why those differences are important.
4:05 p.m.
Professor, Royal Military College of Canada, Department of Defence Studies, As an Individual
If you are talking about a peace operation, there are times when a NATO operation has advantages and times when it's a disadvantage. There are some regions of the world, like the Balkans, where you need to show a lot of force because the language of the day in the 1990s, of Milosevic and Karadzic and others, was to really respect force.
The fact that the NATO IFOR and SFOR forces were backed up by aircraft carriers in the Mediterranean made a big difference in being able to keep the conflict down. Eventually, it transitioned to a European Union mission with much less force, but there are times when you want to have the peace enforcement capability to go along with a peace initiative that the UN is leading.
I foresee that if the UN were ever to create a peacekeeping force in an area like Libya to help disarm the various militia groups, they could have some NATO backing. If it was necessary to have force behind the mission, they could call upon NATO.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Leona Alleslev Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Would you say that part of Canada's plan to engage in any sort of NATO mission would be to also look at what might come afterward in terms of the UN mission?
4:05 p.m.
Professor, Royal Military College of Canada, Department of Defence Studies, As an Individual
Absolutely. That's the lesson of Libya and of so many conflicts. It's much harder to deal with peace than it is to deal with the war, so when you're fighting the war, think about the peace afterwards.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Leona Alleslev Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
There is a continuum of security and peace, perhaps?
4:05 p.m.
Professor, Royal Military College of Canada, Department of Defence Studies, As an Individual
Correct.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Leona Alleslev Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Excellent.
Mark Gerretsen, did you want to ask anything?
November 1st, 2017 / 4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
Just in follow-up to Mr. Garrison's questions about signing a nuclear ban declaration, are we not required, under our obligations with NATO, to not sign such a ban?
4:05 p.m.
Professor, Royal Military College of Canada, Department of Defence Studies, As an Individual
My interpretation is that it's not a legal requirement. It's political pressure that would prevent Canada from signing.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
It's a political pressure that was created by NATO, which was created by the allies.
4:05 p.m.
Professor, Royal Military College of Canada, Department of Defence Studies, As an Individual
Yes. That's correct.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
It's not really a pressure if it's created by the people that—
4:05 p.m.
Professor, Royal Military College of Canada, Department of Defence Studies, As an Individual
I think there's a substantial political and—
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
4:05 p.m.
Professor, Royal Military College of Canada, Department of Defence Studies, As an Individual
I'd say mostly from the United States, because it's U.S. weapons that are deployed in five NATO countries under the NATO umbrella.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
Okay.
You have expertise in peace operations. This government is committed to bringing Canada back, so to speak, to prominence in the international scene, in particular as it relates to peace operations. As you would know, being from RMC, right on Highway 15 is the new peace training facility that's been built. Where do you see Canadian troops being effective in peacekeeping?
4:05 p.m.
Professor, Royal Military College of Canada, Department of Defence Studies, As an Individual
Canada has so much to offer. I'm very proud to be working with really bright individuals, the soldiers who are training at RMC and the Canadian Forces College. We have so much to offer.
The Peace Support Training Centre that's inaugurating a new building on Friday—
4:05 p.m.
Professor, Royal Military College of Canada, Department of Defence Studies, As an Individual
The Peace Support Training Centre is a key element in giving us the expertise that we need to become the prolific and important UN peacekeeper again.
