National Defence Committee on Jan. 29th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Spengemann, please.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Major-General Fortin, Major-General Misener, thank you for joining us, for your testimony and for your service. I would also like to thank the Canadian Armed Forces members under your command.

Major-General Fortin, I have a more specific question for you about your team's role in risk management. In a press release, the Public Health Agency of Canada, or PHAC, stated: “These CAF members will strengthen plans by introducing risk mitigation tools and by facilitating a series of exercises in advance of the roll-out.”

Can you tell us more about those risk management tools? Do they consist solely of mechanisms originating in the military?

More broadly speaking, how does that type of team operate in its daily work?

[MGen Dany Fortin]

Madam Chair, if I have understood the question correctly, Mr. Spengemann is talking about the ongoing preparations and the work done to keep provincial and territorial immunization plan preparation at a high level. Correct me if that's not quite your question. I can tell you that we have imported a number of practices and methods that lend themselves well to military operations and that can be adapted to nearly any operation. A number of us, within the Canadian Armed Forces and the Department of National Defence, have occasionally had to adapt methods that are based on military operations, but that are adaptable to non-traditional operations.

In December, we carried out simulation exercises with more than 140 stakeholders from all levels. In preparation for the second phase in spring, when vaccination activities will increase significantly, a number of those stakeholders will be brought back to the virtual table to discuss plans and adjustments to be made for proper preparation at all levels.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much, Major-General. That's a very useful answer.

Canadians have a high degree of trust in the Canadian Forces. My colleagues have made reference to the role you've played in the operations with respect to COVID, but beyond that, Canadians trust the Canadian Forces. Canadians also trust science and public health authorities, so from the very beginning there's a strong understanding that the complementarity of these two teams can and does add tremendous and essential value to the response to COVID-19.

Could either or both of you tell us specifically what mechanisms are within your reach to protect the most vulnerable in this pandemic? Colleagues have made reference to seniors in long-term care and to indigenous communities. There are other vulnerabilities that will come up, depending on data and demographics.

How nimble is the co-operative, integrated mechanism between PHAC and the Canadian Forces with respect to supporting the most vulnerable in this pandemic?

[MGen Dany Fortin]

I will start, and I will ask my colleague to complete my answer with what the CAF is doing in support along those lines.

I can tell you that the agency and my team integrated in the agency are very much following NACI guidance, following the understanding of various tables and the decisions or guidance that come out of various tables, the Canadian immunization committee and the advice of a number of stakeholders.

In the interests of time I'll keep it short, but it's factored into the agreed-to distribution and the prioritization of who receives the vaccine in the provinces and territories, and then the provinces and territories apply this guidance.

In terms of distribution, that step of the operation is agnostic to who receives the vaccine. We distribute, though, on a per capita basis that is adjusted for the remote indigenous areas, and it is adjusted so that in the first quarter the adult populations in the territories have access to vaccines.

In terms of CAF I'll have to turn to General Misener.

[MGen Mark Misener]

I would just add a couple of things. First of all, since the very beginning of the pandemic, the health and welfare of our people, of the defence team, has been a crucial part. At the very beginning of this, we made sure that those who identified that they had any vulnerabilities or any health conditions that could have been impacted were accommodated. In other words, we didn't bring them into additional risk areas, and they were likely left at home to ensure their well-being.

The second thing I would say—similar to what Major-General Fortin said—is that, in terms of vaccination, which is right now ongoing in the Canadian Armed Forces, our first priority is our front-line health care providers, but it's also our folks who have health conditions that may make them vulnerable to severe forms of COVID-19. They are the very top priority for our receipt of vaccines.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Madame Gallant, please.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses.

First of all, once I heard that Major-General Fortin was in charge of the rollout of the vaccines and the distribution, I had absolute confidence. I knew that once you get the vaccines, they will get to where they need to be.

Major-General Misener, I don't know if you're aware of it, but we're blessed to have two Miseners in here today. Your big sister is doing interpretation. We've worked in the defence committee with her before, and she's just a joy to have.

Shortly after Christmas, we were deploying soldiers to Latvia, and there was a report that soldiers already there and scheduled to come home were suffering from COVID. This really upset the family members because they knew that their loved ones had not been vaccinated for COVID.

What measures are being taken for these soldiers who are just getting into theatre to protect them from those who may have already been infected?

[MGen Mark Misener]

Again, I'll re-emphasize a number of my points about the importance of the health and welfare of our personnel, not only in terms of following public health measures and the advice from our surgeon general. Our command surgeon dives deep into each operation to understand the specific requirements of the operation. There are the layered risk mitigation measures that are put in place, the pre-quarantine before people deploy, the special steps that are taken while they're deployed and the post-deployment steps. These are all the things that are happening to mitigate a very dynamic and evolving COVID situation that we continue to monitor very closely.

I can say that, with respect to that particular operation, we speak very regularly with the commander in theatre. The command team has done an amazing job, as have all of the command teams of prior deployed forces, of taking the appropriate actions to mitigate any risks and to support the health and welfare of our members.

Concurrently, we're working with the force generators to ensure that as the situation changes, which it often does in a dynamic situation like this, the families are kept apprised of what is happening with their loved ones and are kept informed, all in the best interest of the health and welfare of our folks, while obviously continuing to carry out our duties and tasks on operations because, in the end, that is what the Canadian Armed Forces do. They deliver on our missions.

In a nutshell, that's how we continue to manage this.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you.

I have a really quick question, just yes or no. Has the Department of National Defence ever deployed CAF members to operations in nations with high cases of illnesses such as malaria or yellow fever without the members' first receiving the proper vaccinations against those illnesses—that you're aware of?

[MGen Mark Misener]

I guess that would be unlikely, given our robust screening that happens before anybody deploys. There is a robust screening mechanism that occurs before anybody deploys to an operation to ensure that all of those things I just talked about are factored into ensuring the member is ready for the operation.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

That's wonderful. Thank you.

Have any serology tests for COVID antibodies been conducted on the Canadian Armed Forces athletes who competed in the 2019 Military World Games in Wuhan, China, during the early days of the outbreak?

[MGen Mark Misener]

I'll be very honest. I don't have any detailed knowledge of that. I think the best way to go about that would be to take that on notice, Madam Chair.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Do we know when the people in Latvia will be vaccinated? Or are there any rapid tests available for people who are deployed overseas?

[MGen Mark Misener]

As I've mentioned, we've commenced our COVID immunization campaign in order to reduce the threat to our members and maintain our operational effectiveness on our operations. Planning is ongoing for the vaccination of CAF members deployed outside of Canada. This planning is being done in coordination with multiple stakeholders to ensure that deployed CAF members are offered the vaccine as quickly as possible based on vaccine availability, the operational and logistics considerations and the vaccine prioritization framework.

That's all to say that as soon as we can vaccinate these folks, we will, and CJOC has come up with a very detailed plan on how we will do it, based on a number of factors.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

All right. Thank you very much.

Mr. Bagnell, please.

We need you to put on your headset, Mr. Bagnell.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

I know that all 35 people on the call are very appreciative of the work of the Canadian military in keeping us safe, so thank you. Particularly, could you, for me, thank the lowest-entry people who have just entered the military never expecting this? They expected risk, but not necessarily this type of risk that they've been taking, so thank you very much.

I'm the only member on the committee from the Arctic, from the north, so I'll be bit parochial in my question, but I'll just let you know that the north really appreciates the tremendous job you have done and that Canada is doing in prioritizing the Far North and remote indigenous communities, because obviously they have no protection, they have no ventilators and they really need this first. We really appreciate everyone's sympathy for that. They're just delighted—the elders and everyone—that they're getting their vaccines now. Our health officers are delighted. Thank you very much.

I don't know if you wanted to comment at all on the logistics of the north. I know that's pretty difficult, but is there anything you wanted to say related to that before I ask my next question?

[MGen Dany Fortin]

I would simply say that we have very good dialogue with the three territories. They leverage to a maximum extent what federally we can provide to facilitate their distribution plan and to scale up over the coming weeks.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you very much.

Major-General Misener, I wonder if you have any information or could comment on the particular planes that are used in the north or any involvement of joint task force north in the distribution of the vaccine.

[MGen Mark Misener]

I would say that like all of our joint task forces, joint task force north is an integral part of CJOC's structure. We're in touch with them very regularly and work with them very closely to ensure their needs are met. We have great lines of communication, not only with them, but also them with all of their partners who are supporting this effort.

The only other thing I would mention is that as we support joint task force north in providing any requests, we'll do that mainly through our amazing Canadian Rangers, who are our eyes and ears on the ground and have done so much for us so far, and will continue to do so much moving forward, given their knowledge of the local situation.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

I too want to give a huge shout-out to the Canadian Rangers for the work they always do. It would otherwise be impossible in such a huge unpopulated area.

Major-General Fortin, did you have any discussions with other nations on their distribution mechanisms?

[MGen Dany Fortin]

Early on, as we started our work, I had the opportunity to engage with General Perna from Operation Warp Speed in the U.S. He's a four-star general in the U.S. Army. We shared some considerations and learned of the differences but also the similarities between what we were about to start, respectively, in our two countries. We also shared a few best practices as we went forward into the recent weeks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, go ahead.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

This is the last time I will be taking the floor, and I want to sincerely thank you for all the work you are doing. It is extremely appreciated.

Regarding your distribution plan, are you communicating with other countries to determine how things work on their end, to compare what works well on either side and to help each other out in this situation?

Is this more of a vacuum setting where everyone handles their own business?