National Defence Committee on Jan. 29th, 2021

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to begin by thanking our two witnesses and letting them know how satisfied we are with their staff members who have been involved in Operation Laser over the past few months.

Major-General Fortin, our government and the Public Health Agency of Canada are aware of how important it is to provide vaccines to Canadians safely and in a timely manner.

In what way is the Canadian Armed Forces' expertise in logistics and operations an asset for the COVID-19 vaccine distribution?

[MGen Dany Fortin]

Madam Chair, I thank the member for this question.

The Public Health Agency of Canada is usually not in charge of administering such a large number of vaccines on a national scale. Among its many tasks is the coordination of the arrival and distribution of vaccines in smaller batches. For example, off the top of my head, there were influenza vaccines, for which the biggest campaign was launched this year. We can distribute those vaccines more easily, and the handling is much simpler because they are refrigerated and not frozen.

The logistical challenges are substantial in an unprecedented nationwide operation. In winter time, it is difficult to reach remote communities, northern communities and indigenous communities across the country as quickly and as effectively as possible.

It is in this area that the Canadian Armed Forces, thanks to its organizational power and its capacity to adapt and integrate with other teams, was able to assist the agency for several months, especially since November, to attach itself to the agency and to significantly increase its capacity.

However, this is not a military effort, as it focuses on our expertise and our ability to plan complex operations with the Public Health Agency of Canada team and other partners to adopt a truly whole-of-government approach and manage this major project.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Major-General Fortin, our government and the Public Health Agency of Canada, or PHAC, have been transparent about the vaccine distribution since the beginning. Here I am mostly thinking of the weekly vaccine schedule.

Are you aware of any other countries that are providing their administrations with such schedules?

[MGen Dany Fortin]

Madam Chair, I am not aware of any other countries that are providing weekly distribution plans. Questioning other countries is also beyond my purview.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Major-General Misener, what kind of a working relationship exists among the Canadian Armed Forces, the Public Health Agency of Canada, provinces, territories and Public Services and Procurement Canada?

[MGen Mark Misener]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Robillard.

The relationship between the Public Health Agency and the Canadian Armed Forces is a very close relationship as I think, hopefully, you've heard from Major-General Fortin and me. We're closely coordinating and supporting the Public Health Agency's plan.

With respect to the relationships between the provinces and territories, you've heard Major-General Fortin talk about the relationship between the Public Health Agency and the provinces and territories. In parallel, the Canadian Armed Forces, through the regional joint task forces that are arrayed across Canada, maintain close relationships and planning support with the provinces where we are joined up with their vaccine distribution task forces to support their actions. There are great relationships, great collaboration and great planning ongoing so that we're aware of what they are doing and, if required and requested, are able to support what they ask from us.

With respect to our relationship with PSPC, I think it's really more linked to the Public Health Agency of Canada and outside of my operational focus from a Canadian Joint Operations Command perspective.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, go ahead.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to clarify something.

When the Government of Quebec decided to provide as many first doses as possible, did you know, at the time, that vaccine delivery would be delayed?

[MGen Dany Fortin]

Madam Chair, I thank the member for his question.

From the outset, we have been discussing with provinces and territories the advantages and disadvantages of storing the second dose, as we were unsure of delivery forecasts.

As the Pfizer vaccine weekly delivery schedule solidified, everyone was able to take appropriate risks within provincial immunization plans because provinces, and not territories, are the ones receiving Pfizer's vaccine.

We were neither aware of the decisions provinces made based on their own immunization plan nor could we influence that plan.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Of course, I understand that.

I just wanted to know whether you already knew there were delays when the provinces decided to provide more first doses, but you just told me that you were not aware of it at the time. So that has been clarified, which is great.

You are saying that no doses have been distributed this week. Of course, that's not your fault, as Pfizer is responsible for it.

In light of this, what is being done with the military members participating in Operation Vector?

[MGen Dany Fortin]

Madam Chair, I thank the member for his question.

I can't help but smile. Some my staff are actually monitoring the immediate situation and detailed delivery from week to week. Of course, the agency is trying to plan everything in a very detailed manner so as to significantly increase the distribution and the effective use of vaccines nationally, as nearly one million doses will be received per week, and perhaps more, starting in April. So there is a tremendous amount of work to be done to set up freezers and the necessary equipment and to order syringes accordingly in very close coordination with provinces and territories.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

These are questions our constituents are asking us, and we will have a good answer for them. That's great. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Garrison, go ahead, please.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I have a question now for General Misener. I was happy to hear that apparently those in the Canadian Forces who have contracted COVID have not done so in the workplace, and I raised some questions about this last November.

DND has one of the highest rates of privatization of service contracts anywhere in the federal government; about a third of the personnel costs of DND are for private contractors. Quite often we have heard that those private contractors, the employees, have less access to PPE, and they often have no sick leave or inadequate sick leave, forcing them quite often perhaps to go to work in order to keep food on the table when they should be staying at home.

I would like to ask the same question again. Have measures been taken to reduce the risk to Canadian Forces members and DND employees, with regard to the poorer provisions for those who are working on contract alongside them?

[MGen Mark Misener]

I just want to clarify that before I said I wasn't sure but that, yes, the majority of new CAF cases continue to be due to community recreational exposure or close contact with family members.

Obviously when that has happened, CAF members have been observing appropriate public health measures, as they always are.

The Canadian Armed Forces takes the health and welfare of all of its people very seriously and continuously follows PHMs and the advice of the Surgeon General and, as the situation changes, adjusts the appropriate risk mitigation measures so that we are protecting our force to accomplish our mission.

With respect to private contractors specifically, all I can say is that my experience has been that in any DND facility, PPE and appropriate PHMs are available.

With respect to the sick leave portion of that, I don't have really good visibility of that. If you'd like I could take that question on notice and come back to you with more detail on that.

Again, the complete defence team is very carefully considered, and the health and welfare of that team is important.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you, General Misener, and I would appreciate hearing back from you on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Thank you.

We go now to Mr. Benzen.

[Bob Benzen, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thanks, Madam Chair, and thanks to both our witnesses for being here today.

Major-General Fortin, I was just online a few minutes ago reading a report. I want to read a little bit of it. It says “the European Commission on Friday”—that's today—“unveiled a mechanism authorizing member states to block exports of coronavirus vaccines from companies that have not met the delivery targets laid out in their advanced purchasing agreements.”

The report goes on to say that this is alarming news for Canada and the U.K.

It appears that our shortage of vaccines is going to continue for some time. This must be very frustrating to you, having set up this great group of people to distribute the vaccines all across Canada and set up the logistics and now having no vaccines to distribute.

[MGen Dany Fortin]

Not having read this media piece, I would point to the Prime Minister's comment that he made earlier today regarding his engagement earlier this week. Until further notice, I continue to plan closely with the manufacturers on receiving those vaccines on the dates they've indicated. We're working through this in addition to the Prime Minister's engagements. Various engagements are taking place. Eventually, we will receive our vaccines as planned.

[Bob Benzen, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you.

I don't think we're going to get them as quickly as the Prime Minister thinks, based on other countries wanting to make sure they have vaccines for their own citizens.

Let's talk about the Prime Minister for a second. He said that one of the reasons he wanted CAF involved in this process was the possibility of some security threats to the distribution of COVID-19 across Canada.

Can you give us an overview of what were perceived to be some of these security threats and what CAF has done to mitigate or ensure that if you did have the vaccine there would be no problems in their distribution?

[MGen Dany Fortin]

I will not speak on behalf of the CAF. I will speak as a general who's working with the agency. I can tell you we've identified with our partners, with the provinces and territories and federal stakeholders, potential risks: risks in terms of cyber, of misinformation and disinformation; and physical risks to shipments, exports and several other things for which we have mitigations. Other mitigations are our continuous quest as we continue to adjust and share information appropriately. We have close coordination with law enforcement agencies, because security remains a key consideration in our planning throughout for all vaccines, all forms and methods of delivery. We pay attention to all those things on a continuous basis. Law enforcement agencies and other services and agencies, federal down to the provincial, territorial, regional level, are in close coordination and ensure the appropriate actions are taken in anticipation of potential problems.

I can't go into specifics beyond that in the unclassified domain, but I want Canadians to rest assured that we are very much paying attention to the things you would expect us to pay attention to.

[Bob Benzen, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Up to this point has there been any attack on the system? I get you can't tell us what you would do to stop it, because we don't want to give away any secrets.

[MGen Dany Fortin]

I am not aware of any particular cyber attack, but we continue to monitor those threats. As to potential specifics that would deal with law enforcement, that question would have to be asked to law enforcement enterprise.

[Bob Benzen, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

You guys have a fantastic medical intelligence unit collecting information from around the world. We now know that the more information we have and the quicker we react to it, the better we can deal with a pandemic like this.

Do you have any thoughts on how that information you're collecting should be better used in Canada to respond to a pandemic like this?

[MGen Dany Fortin]

I think the agency is poised to get as much clarity as possible on public health matters, public health risks and public health intelligence. I cannot speak to what the CAF is doing in medical intelligence and what it provides to whom. I'm happy to take this question on notice and get back to the committee.