National Defence Committee on Nov. 20th, 2020

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

No, I don't have one. Where is it?

[The Clerk]

It's the “interpretation” button.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I'll just hear the interpretation, and not the other channels.

[The Clerk]

That's right.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I'm sorry.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

There is also no French-to-English translation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

All right, how about now?

I see that it is. You can continue, Mr. Garrison.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Madam Chair, maybe I'll just go back very briefly.

My concern is about maintaining high cleaning standards during the COVID epidemic, and the previous failures of many of the private, contracted-out and privatized services to meet the standards of cleanliness in those contracts.

What measures have been taken to ensure that the private contractors will meet the high standards necessary during the COVID epidemic?

[MGen Dany Fortin]

Certainly, from my viewpoint, in what we experienced in the last few months as a large number of CAF and DND members were on stay-at-home orders, we had significantly fewer people in some of the buildings. Mindful of the challenge of higher cleaning standards and additional cleaning requirements imposed on a small workforce, including our contractors, they focused on those areas that were, obviously, more demanding in terms of work hours or quantity of personnel.

We've also lessened the burden on them as we adopt more strict force health protection measures in those areas where the business of defence continues. We are very mindful of the workload. As a result, we ourselves, both military and civilian members in our workplace, ensure that we do our part to clean and ensure that we maintain a high standard.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you very much.

I just want to stress that my questions are not in any way criticisms of individual employees of the Canadian Armed Forces or DND, or even of the private contractors, but I think we have a structural problem here with the high levels of contracting out and the difficulties of enforcing those standards on private contractors.

With that, Madam Chair, I think I've pressed my luck on technical difficulties and I'll stop there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Thank you very much, Mr. Garrison.

Mr. Benzen.

[Bob Benzen, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for being here today and for your service to Canada.

The chief public health officer has said recently, in fact just yesterday, that our daily cases of COVID-19, which are around 5,000, are about to double to 10,000. They could double again to 20,000 and maybe skyrocket to 60,000 by the end of this year.

I wonder if that is consistent with the medical intelligence branch's modelling and predictions. Is that what you guys are also seeing happening?

[MGen Dany Fortin]

While we have individuals in the medical intelligence section who look at medical conditions across the globe, they exclusively look at what happens outside of Canada, for obvious reasons.

At home, it is through the Public Health Agency. It is through our partners that we understand the dynamics of what is happening in the country. There's a rich dialogue about what happens from one end of the country to the other and how we can factor that into our own activities, ensuring that we ourselves protect the members and the families of the CAF and DND and don't become threat vectors. We're very mindful of that.

[Bob Benzen, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

As the medical intelligence unit collects its data from outside the country and it sees how COVID-19 might be mutating, for example, it brings that information back into Canada and shares it with Health Canada. Is that what you're saying?

[MGen Dany Fortin]

We should perhaps consider this question, take it on notice. I am not well equipped to answer this question fully, and there are also things that we would prefer to take on notice.

[Bob Benzen, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you.

Let's assume that the cases do skyrocket up to 60,000 a day. There's a good chance, obviously, that our military personnel are going to be infected at a higher rate, and that is going to constrain your resources for dealing with how we are giving out the vaccine and all the work you have to do.

With the potential of increased cases of infection within the military and having more work to do, what are your thoughts on how we're going to deal with that situation maybe in January and February?

[MGen Dany Fortin]

Thank you for the question. We're very mindful that we live among society and therefore are subject to the same regulations and the same measures. The guidance is that we follow local, provincial and territorial measures. That's the first point.

The other issue I'd like to emphasize is that the chief of the defence staff and the deputy minister jointly published a directive to the department and to the CAF on business resumption, with a set of guiding principles and a very logical lay-down of the measures by phase, if you will, or by levels. We've certainly demonstrated that we're prepared to adopt very strict measures to protect the forces, but also to ensure that we're not putting Canadians at risk.

That is the angle we're taking. We'll continue to adapt moving forward, being mindful that some of the training needs to continue and that some very specific training needs to happen, for instance, for its military operations. We've put together the right parameters to ensure that's done safely, and that will minimize the cracks in the armour, if you can pardon my analogy.

[Bob Benzen, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Do you think, though, that with the increased demands on CAF we're going to be short of personnel, that we're going to need more personnel? Logistically, you're going to be a focal point in spreading the vaccine around Canada. If there's an increase in the infection rate, is that going to hurt you in doing that job?

[MGen Dany Fortin]

Thank you for the question.

This is certainly something that the chief of the defence staff and the deputy minister are well aware of. Additional measures can be put in place to ensure that we are protecting ourselves even more, so that we remain that force of last resort and can be prepared to take on those tasks that the Government of Canada decides on in support of Canada and in support of Canadians.

As to whether or not we have an appropriate amount of resources, we operate within the resources that are allocated to the Canadian Armed Forces. We're specifically privileging the security of Canadians and the defence of the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Spengemann.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Madam Chair, thank you very much.

I would like to thank our team of witnesses for their distinguished service as senior officers of the Canadian Armed Forces and, through them, also thank the women and men who are serving under their command.

My first question is a question that I would like you to take on notice.

Major-General Fortin, there's a lot of discussion locally in civilian communities about the impact of COVID-19—as we see in the headlines—and appropriate response measures. Could you provide the committee with an analysis of which trades in the Canadian Armed Forces are most impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic, either directly as they involve potential front-line exposure, or indirectly with respect to logistics, movement control, training or other trades?

[MGen Dany Fortin]

Thank you, Madam Chair. We will.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much.

Are strategic and operational aspects of a pandemic response considered to be part of force protection in the Canadian Armed Forces? I think there was an allusion to that. I just want to confirm it for the record and also ask if there are any specific dimensions to that question with respect to overseas operations.

[MGen Dany Fortin]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I think I mentioned this earlier, if I got the question right. We very much have adopted force health protection measures—all of the public health measures that we adopt in the country—and have added an additional layer in very specific cases and very specific regions. As we prepare the force for deployment, we're very mindful of that.

As I mentioned earlier, for our activities abroad, our force protection was and continues to be conducted with no degradation, but we're very mindful that this represents a higher training bill, if I may say so, in terms of ensuring that people are isolated prior to conducting certain force generation activities, and that they are conducted in a different way so that we continue to factor COVID into everything we do.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

That's very helpful, Major-General. I would imagine that the health component of force protection is integrated also into the other aspects of operating in a kinetic environment, an environment where any given state may not have the control either of health or of security, and that this is part of a broader strategic consideration.