National Defence Committee on March 9th, 2022

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Would you agree that some of the challenges to attracting those new Canadians to join up and serve in the Canadian Armed Forces are making sure they have the best equipment and that the equipment is ready? Considering that the threat situation now has fundamentally changed things, we need a quick decision, something I know you're familiar with, on the fighter project and the fighter replacement. We need a decision on that sooner than later.

[MGen Paul Prévost]

Mr. Chair, for sure having the best equipment is helping us to recruit people. What we're doing in the CAF also helps us to recruit our people. We have the plans. I think the fighter replacement is on track. There are plans for the ships. There are multiple capabilities being brought into the force based on our previous defence policy and NORAD modernization. The whole of that will help us rebuild the force.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

I agree with that.

I guess my question, though, is how soon do we need a decision on this fighter replacement thing? Going back to my time in uniform and even before that, this is something that's been bandied about and discussed, and I'd argue even more so in your environment in the air force. There's very much a desire for a decision sooner than later, whatever that decision may be. When do you think that decision will be reached?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

Mr. Chair, I'm not at liberty to answer that question, because I'm not involved at all in procurement in the CAF. I manage operations from a strategic perspective.

I think the project is on track. In the coming months, we should see something new.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have a minute left, Mr. Ruff.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

To go back to the ground-based air defence, we saw during our time in Afghanistan—and I know you're very familiar with it, having commanded the task force there—that we were able to procure strategic airlift in a very rapid fashion, considering the threat in the situation. Is it a fair assessment that we could procure something as simple as ground-based air defence within a year, if the political will were there?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

Mr. Chair, to answer that question, which I think I've answered before, we have a project in development right now to have ground-based air defence in the CAF. It's part of our defence policy from 2017. At the same time, we're operating right now in Europe as part of an alliance, part of the battle group that we command in Latvia. There is an air defence capability, and we're looking at other capabilities that will be coming on board in the eastern flank at this time. So there's no gap, from that perspective, and there is a procurement plan to look after that gap over the long term.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Ruff.

I'll take the next five minutes.

I want to direct the first question to General Prévost.

The general consensus seems to be that President Putin is stalled. It follows from this that people are surprised. People who look at this are surprised that this has not been a very successful campaign. Yet, surely to goodness, there is a pattern in President Putin's behaviour. If you look back to Chechnya, he had initial success, and then it was really a brutal campaign. It was similar in Syria—initial success and then really a brutal campaign.

We appear to be in a similar pattern. I'd be interested in your thoughts on this. There was some initial success. When you look at a map of Ukraine, there has been some significant penetration into the country by Russian forces. But now they're either stalled or prepared to shell civilians and non-military targets, which is very similar to what Chechnya looked like and very similar to what Syria looked like. The real question is this: For how long are we prepared to let this pattern continue?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

Mr. Chair, this is something we're very concerned about. We're trying to better understand the indicators, what Mr. Putin is doing or is going to do. We're looking at different scenarios here of what he could do.

Obviously, there's a pause there. On the military side, it's not going as he wanted. There is also, I think, a reassessment on his part of what the whole of government, the whole of the alliance, is doing right now. We've talked about the impacts of the sanctions on this. I think he's reassessing.

Perhaps I'll also turn to Kevin.

At the same time, there are more and more talks happening between Russia and Ukraine on avenues for peace.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Before you turn it over to Mr. Hamilton, I will just say that there is a pause, but it's a vulnerability on the part of Mr. Putin that he'll close sooner rather than later. Are we not giving up military opportunities while we try to figure out what we should do next or we hold ourselves back from doing what, in military terms, we would actually do without hesitation?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

Mr. Chair, that is not for us to do. At this point we're obviously watching what's going on, what could be the next step for Mr. Putin against Ukraine but also for the alliance. It is not for us right now to make a decision on what we should do next in Ukraine.

Kevin.

[Kevin Hamilton]

I would say that everything we're trying to do nationally and as part of an alliance is to forestall the worsening of the military situation on the ground for the Ukrainians. All of our sanctions, the lethal aid to the Ukrainian armed forces, the non-lethal aid, the humanitarian assistance and the diplomatic work we're doing to rally not just western countries but the entire global community to condemn Russia for what it's doing are focused on trying to get Mr. Putin to have a second thought about what he's trying to do militarily.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I would dearly love to challenge that question, but I have one last question.

It's clear that there is a misinformation or disinformation campaign, which President Putin is immensely skilled at, going on in Ukraine. It's clear that it's going on in eastern Europe. What's less clear is what might be going on in Canada.

Has there been any strategy on the part of GAC or anyone else to deal with the misinformation or disinformation campaigns that are going on in Canada?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

I can start, Mr. Chair, and then offer to Kevin or Heidi to supplement.

In the CAF what we're doing about misinformation or disinformation is to make sure that if there is disinformation out there about what the Canadian Armed Forces are doing, we correct the record. That is true here in Canada, but it's also true internationally.

There are greater efforts being made by the whole of government on this, in which Global Affairs has a great role to play.

I'll turn it over to either Heidi or Kevin to comment.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Please do so very briefly or my colleagues will get very upset with me.

[Kevin Hamilton]

I can jump in here. Specifically in Canada, we're taking steps to counter Russia's disinformation campaign. As part of that, the government had asked the CRTC to review the presence of the news channel Russia Today on Canadian airwaves. We understand the CRTC as an independent body is looking at that and will make their decision.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Ms. Normandin, you have two and a half minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

I will only ask one question about the no-fly zone, but I will start with a fairly long introduction.

We understand that the idea behind President Zelenskyy's request for a no-fly zone is to protect civilians. We also agree that it's not enough to declare a no-fly zone, and getting it to work would involve a NATO military response to wipe out Russia's air force, if necessary.

However, it seems we're seeing more and more direct attacks on civilians, such as this morning's attack on a maternity hospital in Mariupol.

Could this be part of a strategy to push the envelope a little further and see how far they can push the red line, which they can't cross, before they trigger a NATO response? Otherwise, isn't this a way to pressure NATO and bring about internal dissent, since it's very likely we will see increasing public pressure for NATO intervention in this context?

Is a strategy like this being used by intensifying attacks on civilians?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

Ms. Normandin, I'm going to answer the first part of the question. I will then turn it over to Mr. Hamilton, who can add to my response if he wishes.

Of course we're concerned about all Russian military action against Ukrainian forces, but also against civilians.

With respect to the no-fly zone, we don't know what Putin's strategy or thinking is on that. At the moment, NATO isn't planning to institute a no-fly zone, but we're extremely concerned about military action targeting civilians.

Kevin, do you have anything to add?

[Kevin Hamilton]

Actually, I don't. That would be my response as well.

Thank you.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

In that case, I will say this: One day, it may not be ruled out. Maybe they are trying to figure out how far President Putin can go.

Is this one possible scenario, Major General Prévost?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

Ms. Normandin, we're assessing all scenarios. However, we believe that Putin is taking note of the alliance's position and the measures being taken, not only in terms of NATO's military action but also in terms of military support for Ukraine. Major efforts are being made in that regard, and it certainly is having a deterrent effect. In addition, we have the diplomatic and economic measures. These are important efforts that hopefully will convince Putin to be careful.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Madame Normandin.

Ms. Mathyssen, you have two and a half minutes.

I'll just say to my colleagues in the Conservative Party that I don't know who is going to be the next questioner.

Madam Mathyssen, go ahead.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

To follow up a bit on what the chair was asking about, I think, Mr. Hamilton, you mentioned that now the CRTC is looking into Russia Today and stopping their misinformation campaign in Canada. It is investigating it at the very least. We know, and we've certainly heard on this committee, that this has been an issue for quite some time, so why is it only now that this is happening?

[Kevin Hamilton]

My understanding is that it's because of the independent nature of the CRTC. They have looked at this issue before. I'm not privy to exactly through what mechanisms or how, but what I do know is that in the current context, the government itself has requested that the CRTC look into this and they are.