National Defence Committee on June 6th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

We have quorum and it's my happy task to welcome the minister, after many tries, to this committee.

We are studying the subject matter of the estimates. We have the minister with us for an hour. You'll note that the time for reporting back to the House has passed, so there will be no votes for the committee on the main estimates.

As I say to all colleagues at the time that we're doing estimates, humour the chair just a bit by trying to tie the question to the estimates. That is what the minister is here for.

With that, Minister Anand, we look forward to your five-minute statement. Thank you.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for this opportunity to discuss the main estimates for DND, the Canadian Armed Forces and the Communications Security Establishment.

As you know, our defence policy, launched in 2017, stresses the importance of ensuring that our armed forces are well funded, well equipped and well supported to defend Canada and North America, and to contribute to peace around the globe.

With Russia's illegal and immoral invasion of Ukraine, we have been reminded how vital it is to uphold these commitments. That is why, in budget 2022, we announced that we would be redoubling our efforts to keep Canada safe and to secure our place in the world through a broad and ambitious range of investments.

The roughly $26.8 billion we are requesting through these main estimates is the first step in this plan. It will lay the foundation for everything we do to modernize and transform our military over the next fiscal year and to make meaningful investments to shore up Canada's cyber-related capacities as well.

Our requests for funding fall broadly into the following categories: operating expenditures, capital expenditures, grants and contributions, and payments going toward the long-term disability and life insurance plan for members of the CAF. This amount also includes roughly $800 million for the CSE to maintain and bolster Canada's cyber-capabilities.

Let me start with operating expenditures.

Mr. Chair, more than half of the funding we have requested in these estimates—over $17.5 billion dollars—is for our operating expenditures. This funding will help the CAF carry out its critical missions at home and abroad, and work with our international allies and partners to uphold global peace and security.

It will also support the CAF reconstitution process that General Eyre announced last year, ensuring CAF readiness following the COVID-19 pandemic. In fact, a key part of reconstitution is the ongoing work we are doing to change the culture of our organization and to ensure that those who were affected by sexual misconduct or other harms in the line of duty receive the support they need. As I announced just last week, I am pleased to note that we have received Madame Arbour's final report. Building on the report to create a more inclusive and safer defence team is a priority.

Madam Arbour's report is just one of several lines of effort across the national defence team.

These include the work that the chief, professional conduct and culture, is doing to unify and integrate all of our culture change efforts, the support that the sexual misconduct response centre provides to affected team members and our efforts to modernize the military justice system, to name just a few of the initiatives. The business of defence clearly covers a wide range of activities, but everything we do comes down to having a force that is ready, that is resilient and whose members are well supported at all points in their careers.

This funding will help us keep building that military force.

I'll turn to capital expenditures.

With respect to capital expenditures, through these main estimates, we are requesting almost $6 billion to keep funding several critical procurement projects over the next fiscal year.

These projects include our Canadian surface combatants, joint support ships, Arctic and offshore patrol ships, and armoured combat support vehicles as well. These large, multi-year, multi-billion dollar projects are essential to our success as an organization and are even more important in a geopolitical environment governed by uncertainty, instability and great power competition.

I'll move now to grants and contributions.

We are also requesting $314 million in grants and contributions through these main estimates.

The grants and contributions allow us to spur innovation in Canadian industry and academia.

These will support organizations outside of defence that provide services for defence team members.

They also allow us to do our part to stay engaged internationally.

Of this funding, we are allocating almost $225 million towards NATO programs like the NATO military, the security investment program and other activities. This represents an increase of $63.9 million over last year's main estimates towards our collective defence and security through NATO.

We are also providing $447 million dollars towards the CAF long-term disability plan and for optional group life insurance for general officers.

Through this funding, the CAF will keep working with partners to ensure that our people and their families receive the support they need when they are ill and injured, including when they hang up the uniform for the last time.

Finally, as I noted earlier, we are requesting roughly $800 million in funding for the Communications Security Establishment. This funding will go towards enhancing CSE's ability to prevent cyber-attacks and to defend Canadians, Canadian businesses and our critical infrastructure against them.

Mr. Chair, it's a pleasure to be with you today. The funding requested in the estimates covers a broad range of investments, representing a 6.8% increase in yearly spending over last year's main estimates for DND and the CAF, but it is just the beginning.

In the months to come, we will be announcing new funding opportunities for defence, including a robust plan to bolster our continental defences and modernize NORAD in collaboration with our U.S. partners.

As highlighted in budget 2022, we have initiated a review and update of our defence policy to make sure we are keeping ahead of our biggest threats now, and into the future.

Thank you.

I am pleased to take your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Madam Minister.

For our six-minute round, we're leading off with Mr. Motz followed by Mr. Fisher, Madam Normandin and then Madam Blaney.

Mr. Motz.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here. Also, on a personal note, thank you for providing me with some of that contact information for my constituents on that question from a couple of weeks ago. I appreciate that.

Minister, we've just witnessed China harass and act aggressively toward our Canadian Aurora long-range maritime patrol aircraft and exhibit the same sort of aggressive behaviour toward an Australian P-8 maritime patrol aircraft. Where are we in the Indo-Pacific strategy that we've heard so much about recently from Liberal ministers?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you so much for the question.

I want to reiterate that we are developing a comprehensive Indo-Pacific strategy to deepen diplomatic and defence partnerships in the region. That is why the Prime Minister put this important issue in my mandate letter.

Canada remains committed to a consistent presence in the Indo-Pacific through consistent engagement and capacity building. What does this include? Well, it includes a variety of military exercises with allies and partners, such as Australia, the United States and Japan. The bottom line is that Canada is going to continue to promote regional peace and security in the Indo-Pacific.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Where would you say we are in that process? Are we at the beginning stages of this strategy? Are we where we want to be?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

In your original question, you did mention the Chinese planes that were in the news very much this weekend. In fact, I made a comment that these aircraft did not adhere to international air safety norms and that their interactions were unprofessional and put the safety of our Royal Canadian Air Force personnel at risk. Our primary concern is the safety of our aircrew. These occurrences in particular have been addressed through diplomatic channels.

I will say that our Indo-Pacific strategy is increasingly important in this region. I'm actually travelling to Singapore this week, where I will be discussing Canada's Indo-Pacific presence and the importance of our military exercises with allies and partners, such as Australia, the United States and Japan, including the sail-through of the Taiwan Strait that we undertook in 2021 with the United States.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Would now be a good time for Canada to make efforts to join the quadrilateral security dialogue?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Canada is very committed to a number of multilateral partnerships, and again, one of the purposes of my travelling to Singapore and participating in a Shangri-La Dialogue, where I will be giving remarks at the final day of that conference, is to express Canada's commitment to multilateralism writ large as well as to stability and security in that region.

I will ask my deputy minister, Bill Matthews, if he has anything more to say on this.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

That's fine, Minister. We can always ask later after you have gone.

Minister, Canada has been excluded from the Australia, U.K. and U.S. group—or what they call now the “Three Eyes”—on capability. Your government has said that's because we don't want to operate nuclear submarines, but the government knows that the Australia, U.K. and U.S. partnership is not just about submarines. It's about artificial intelligence, autonomy, cyber, quantum technologies, hypersonics and counter-hypersonics, electronic warfare and innovation in information sharing—in other words, the future of warfare.

What is our plan to get into the Three Eyes? Or is Canada planning on a strategy of isolation in the future security environment?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you so much for that question.

Let me start by saying that Canada has intricate and long-standing defence partners with the United States, with the United Kingdom and with Australia, our close friends and allies. We coordinate particularly closely in a number of multinational organizations and we will continue to do so.

Again, part of the reason that I am travelling to Singapore this week is to reiterate the importance of these multinational partnerships. We are not isolated. I meet with my counterparts regularly, and I will continue to do this. We do this work across the board with our allies and will continue to do so.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you, Minister, but do you think there are barriers in joining those alliances like the Three Eyes? Could it be because of the delay in announcing our ban of Huawei?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Mr. Chair, I will say that our collaboration with our allies has been incredibly strong, especially over the last number of months as we together respond to Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine.

On a number of occasions, I have met with my counterparts on a bilateral and multilateral basis. I will say that Canada has been at the forefront of a number of issues, including the Ukraine conflict, and we will continue to collaborate multilaterally and bilaterally with our allies in support of the international rules-based order.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Motz.

Mr. Fisher, you have six minutes please.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Minister, for being here today and for all the work you have done and are doing.

Minister, Russia's unprovoked illegal invasion of Ukraine has been something that you've been obviously focused on for these past few months. I think members of this committee can all agree that we need to do everything we can to support Ukraine.

I know that you've been in close contact with your Ukrainian counterpart to discuss Ukraine's military needs. In fact, half of the members of this committee were in Vilnius last week and heard from the defence minister in Ukraine. He name-dropped you and said.... I don't want to paraphrase, but he said something along the lines of “my very best friend, Anita Anand”, which was really wonderful to hear in front of the entire NATO delegation.

Since your last appearance before this committee, you've announced a number of additional supports for Ukraine, including $500 million in budget 2022. Can you please let us know what you've done so far to directly support Ukraine and to coordinate with our international partners?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, for that question, and thank you to the member for his important work on this issue.

Since February alone, we have made a series of announcements of additional military aid, including $98 million on May 25 for 20,000 artillery rounds of 155-millimetre NATO-standard ammunition, including fuses and charge bags, and $50 million on May 8 for high-resolution satellite imagery, an additional 18 drone cameras and ammunition. There was the delivery of M777 howitzers and associated munitions and training for our Ukrainian partners outside of Ukraine on how to use them, anti-armour weapons systems and rocket launchers, heavy artillery, commercial pattern armoured vehicles, and personal protective equipment such as body armour, gas masks, helmets and other specialized pieces of military equipment.

As you know, and as you mentioned in this question, we allocated an additional half a billion dollars. Before that budget, we sent well over $100 million, and now we are well over $260 million, including funds from the budget. We are working around the clock to allocate the remaining funds from the budget. As mentioned in the question, I am in close contact with my Ukrainian counterpart to discuss the specific needs of Ukraine's army.

An important contribution, in addition, that Canada has set up is a coalition air bridge with two CC-130 tactical aircraft to Europe to transport military equipment from Canada and our allies and partners to Ukraine. We have delivered over two million pounds of aid, and this work continues every day.

As Ukrainian heroes fight back against Putin, we will continue to help them defend Ukraine's territory and the rules-based international order.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Switching gears for a second, the Arctic is of crucial importance to the Canadian geopolitical landscape and to the people and communities of the north. I know you've made safeguarding Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic a priority, and I know that it's in your mandate letter.

There are a number of items in these main estimates that touch on this issue. One of the ones I'll use as an example is the $340 million to continue funding construction efforts for the Arctic and offshore patrol ships.

Can you give us a bit more detail on the status of these ships, as well as maybe some other projects that are under way with regard to our sovereignty in the Arctic?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Yes, of course. Thank you for the question.

Canada's sovereignty in the Arctic is secure and it's well established. We're taking action, and we're making landmark investments to increase our ability to operate in the Arctic, including joint exercises in the Arctic, purchasing six Arctic and offshore patrol ships and enhancing our capability to defend Arctic sovereignty with 88 new fighter jets.

Last month, May 16 in fact, I hosted a very productive security and defence dialogue with Arctic allies and partners from Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, Sweden and the United States, to discuss evolving security and climate dynamics in the Arctic as well as Russia's unlawful invasion of Ukraine.

Your question specifically mentioned the Arctic offshore patrol ships. Those are integral to defending the north. We have had two of those six ships delivered to the Royal Canadian Navy already. As many of you already know, the HMCS Harry DeWolf recently completed a circumnavigation of North America. That's the first Royal Canadian Navy ship to do so since 1954. A third vessel is also in the water, and we look forward to its delivery this fall.

In addition, this procurement project is helping to revitalize the Canadian shipbuilding industry by sustaining 2,000 jobs annually. That is why we are requesting $340 million in the estimates to continue funding construction efforts during the implementation-phase activities of the project, including construction on ships three to six.

These ships are simply critical to enhancing the navy's ability to assert Canadian sovereignty in Arctic and coastal waters. We will always remain firm and unwavering in defending Canada's sovereignty, the peoples and communities of the north, and our national interests. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Fisher.

Ms. Normandin, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here. We're always happy to have you.

I'd like to begin by discussing the issue of recruitment and retention that the committee has addressed. It's essential that the armed forces improve this situation. That's why I'd like for you to tell us about the initiatives set out in the budget to reverse this trend.

For instance, can you tell us that x amount under such and such initiative will be used for recruitment and retention?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you for your question.

We must ensure that we have the right number of people, the right equipment and the right support. That's why we launched, and are in the process of launching, several initiatives to attract and retain more people in the Canadian Armed Forces, or CAF.

That includes the CAF reconstitution plan, launched by the chief of the defence staff, and a workforce retention strategy that we'll be launching soon.

I will ask the vice-chief of the defence staff to speak specifically to the budgetary aspects.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Minister, I'm going to use my time to speak with you. I'll ask the question again in the second hour of the meeting, once you've left.

I'd like you to talk to us about the Arbour report, which has just been made public. If I'm not mistaken, you already intend to immediately apply 17 of the report's recommendations. Some are more superficial and are related at most to name changes. Others, however, are more substantial and could have a budgetary impact.

In general, of the 48 recommendations in the Arbour report, what types of recommendations do you want to implement quickly?

Could you give us the recommendation numbers, if you have them on hand?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

That's a very important question.

First, I'd like to tell you that I accepted the report in its entirety. I spoke with the Prime Minister, and we fully agree on the important issues raised by Madam Arbour. My priority is to build an institution in which everyone feels safe, protected and respected.

First, we'll implement 17 recommendations, those that require that we report to the House on our progress in the process. I'd also like to confirm that we'll appoint an external monitor.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

We can talk about what's in Justice Arbour's report, but we can also talk about what's not in it, in terms of recommendations. Justice Arbour also noted that she was somewhat disappointed in the past that the letter of some recommendations was followed rather than the spirt, including those in the Deschamps report.

She also noted the work by Justice Fish on the independence of the Office of the Ombudsman, but did not make any recommendations to that effect. We know that, if the ombudsman had had more independence and had reported directly to Parliament, we might not have gotten bogged down for several years in the scandal surrounding Jonathan Vance, which the government made an attempt to cover up.

Although it's not a specific recommendation, is there hope of the ombudsman gaining independence in the coming years?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you for the question. I would like to say that we greatly believe in the importance of the role of the ombudsman. Continuing to ensure the independence of the ombudsman is very important to us, generally speaking. We will continue to maintain a productive dialogue with the ombudsman. We deeply value the important services that his office provides to the defence team. We're committed to supporting the important work he does.

Does the deputy minister have anything to add?