National Defence Committee on Sept. 27th, 2022

[BGen Josh J. Major]

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for his question.

I would add the following: even though we all know that the Canadian Armed Forces are short 10,000 people, we have put procedures in place to ensure that we have forces ready and able to respond to Canadians’ needs at home, but also to meet our international obligations. We do this by privatizing our efforts, so that we are able to meet those needs.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

There is no doubt that climate change is increasing the severity and frequency of natural disasters, but we have also heard that climate change has broader security implications.

Can you tell us how the Canadian Armed Forces are adapting to these changes relative to their traditional defence and security roles?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

I thank the member for his excellent question.

It is true that climate change is affecting weather events in Canada, as noted at the start of the meeting. However, it is also a source of international security concerns. Climate change is bringing more conflict to areas of the world that are already disadvantaged, such as desert areas, since resources are very scarce to be being with. I’m talking about food security, for instance. Climate change also exacerbates some of the problems populations experience, whether it is international security, natural disasters or conflicts, and the Canadian Armed Forces may be called upon to respond to them on an international level.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

What can local, provincial and federal authorities do to help relieve the mounting pressure on the Canadian Armed Forces to respond to domestic emergencies?

[Major-General Paul Prévost]

I thank the member for his question.

I will start the answer and then pass it to my colleague if he wishes to add anything.

I feel that we're on the right path. These past few years, we've had to face a pandemic, of course, but in addition, as I said at the beginning of my remarks, the number of natural events where the federal government has had to get involved has doubled about every five years. These events have led local, provincial and federal authorities to seek out tools and ways to better collaborate. Furthermore, a number of civilian organizations, including not-for-profit ones, have stepped up and are always ready to answer the call in the event of a crisis. All partners using the same coordination and communication mechanisms builds domestic resilience.

[BGen Josh J. Major]

Madam Chair, I would add that—

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Christine Normandin]

I'm sorry to interrupt you, Major General, but the member's time is up.

Ms. Gallant, you now have the floor for five minutes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Now, in the hurricane down east, as well as other tragedies like Swissair, the military may have been the only entity, not the best entity, to take care of disasters of such scope. Even inland, we have the flooding, and there's nothing more warming than to see a Chinook from 450 Squadron carrying pallets of sandbags. The military already conducts exercises that have the dual function of caring for civilian needs, such as building a helipad for a hospital, because that's something they would do in theatre.

My question is about mitigation, trying to prevent where possible the level of devastation that occurs. Would it be possible to have more training exercises that serve the dual purpose of perhaps building berms or a Duff's Ditch, projects of that extent that would provide for mitigation—with the funding coming from the carbon tax revenues, of course, not from the military coffers? Would it be feasible to have more practical applications, both militarily and civilian, so that we can practise disaster prevention?

[BGen Josh J. Major]

Certainly, I don't wish to speculate on the extent to which those exercises can occur, but in the past, there have been different military exercises where a specific unit.... In this case, what is being referred to is specific to engineers, as many of these activities are. We speak of berms, for example. Engineers have gone in and built Bailey bridges, which they have left in place to service other communities. It is conceivably possible, but I wouldn't wish to speculate on the amount or the level to which that could be done in the future.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Okay.

You mentioned engineers, and that leads to my next question. One of the propositions is that we have a type of army corps of engineers, but we're short of people for the military as it is. We're short of people to fill civilian positions.

Given what you know about the strength in respect to our engineers, would it be feasible to have an army corps of engineers—similar but not the same as that in the United States, for example—or would that separate entity detract from the human resources available, which are already in short supply for the military?

[BGen Josh J. Major]

Madam Chair, thanks for that question. It certainly is an interesting question.

As far as I'm aware, no study is being done right now to look into those possibilities. I wouldn't want to speculate on the type of personnel or the pool that would be drawn from for each. Perhaps something that would require more study would be to look at the U.S. corps of army engineers, which is an entity distinct from, say, the U.S. Army engineers. Each provides a different level of combat support.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

If such an entity were stood up, would that allow the military to do more of the training that only the military can do? We've said that all eyes are on Ukraine, but we have to have some eyes on our Arctic as well. Would it relieve some of the human resource pressure if we had a separate entity, not necessarily to fight disasters alone but perhaps to mitigate the effects of disasters?

[BGen Josh J. Major]

Thank you for that question.

I wouldn't want to necessarily speculate without having a firm understanding of what this corps of engineers would be mandated to do. It's difficult to describe what their task would be in relation to Canadian Armed Forces engineering tasks.

Understanding with foresight the path that the Canadian Armed Forces currently trains for will allow us to continue into the future, as those are skills that we need to maintain.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Should the militia or Canada's reserve army be trained to fight climate change or weather events, the way they were a civil defence force during the Cold War, in the so-called hook-and-ladder days?

[BGen Josh J. Major]

Mr. Chair, it's an interesting question.

We're examining the reserve force right now. They are currently training on generally the same tasks that we are asking of the regular force, to allow us to integrate and to be able to respond either domestically or internationally without creating a niche capability.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mrs. Gallant.

Mr. May, you have five minutes.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here with us this morning.

One of the things I've been keenly focused on in my role as parliamentary secretary for defence is the infrastructure that we currently have and some of the challenges and deficiencies we have.

To what extent are CAF current facilities located across Canada at risk due to extreme weather?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

I'm not an expert on infrastructure in Canada, but what I can say is that throughout hurricane Fiona that just went through the Maritimes, our military infrastructure withstood the storm. There's no impact on our operations right now in Atlantic Canada due to the storm.

That's all I can provide right now.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Beyond the circumstances we're faced with immediately, do you have any insight on specific facilities that might be at risk as a result of not just extreme weather in general but climate change?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

Mr. Chair, that's a good question.

Again, as I said, I'm not an expert on infrastructure for the Canadian Armed Forces. What we know is that we have probably the biggest portfolio of infrastructure for the federal government. Some of it is aging. This will be part of the defence policy update in terms of what needs to be done. I know there are great efforts to green our portfolio, to revamp our portfolio. The status of exactly what the vulnerabilities at this point are I cannot speak to.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you.

How do provincial and territorial emergency management organizations, NGOs, the CAF and other federal entities co-operate and collaborate during these types of domestic emergencies?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Please be brief.

[MGen Paul Prévost]

Mr. Chair, I can certainly speak to that, as I'm involved in pretty much every domestic crisis we have in Canada in terms of the discussions between the federal partners, as well as the provinces and sometimes the local partners.

On those discussions, I would say that this is something the pandemic brought to us: a good assessment of all the tools available, because there were so many facets in the pandemic that we had to deal with. Those discussions are strong. Everybody's on speed dial, and we have some great discussions internally and within the federal government, but also with every emergency management authority in every territory and the provinces. There are great discussions.

When it's required, we also bring in the local levels. I think of when we respond to a crisis in first nation communities, to forest fires, evacuations and COVID outbreaks like those we've lived through over the last two and a half years. We bring all levels into the same room to have good discussions on what the needs are and how we can best address them.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. May.

I didn't know we still had speed dial.

You have two and a half minutes, Madame Normandin.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

Major General Prévost, I'd like to come back to what Mr. Fisher asked, that you explain the process for working with the CAF.

We know that the CAF doesn't stay at an emergency location indefinitely. What's the process for having the CAF leave? How do they get to the point where they say they no longer need the military?