National Defence Committee on Sept. 27th, 2022

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much, gentlemen.

As a follow-up, how does the Canadian Armed Forces determine how they allocate their own resources to respond to a particular disaster? Can you describe this in terms of the current efforts in Atlantic Canada?

[BGen Josh J. Major]

Yes, Mr. Chair, thank you for that question. That's an important question as well, procedurally speaking.

As the conversation about the request for assistance occurs, of course different levels of the chain of command are made aware of what is being discussed. That allows us to actually start activating the different parts that we need in order to achieve the desired effect. If those parts aren't sufficient in a particular area, then other elements within the Canadian Armed Forces are stood up, be they in the army, the air force or the navy. They are either moved or pre-positioned to be able to deliver that effect very quickly.

Every element of the CAF has responsibility domestically to have forces on standby to be able to respond to requests for assistance within very short notice. That allows us to then flow forces once all the approvals are obtained.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Fisher.

Ms. Normandin, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

Major-General Prévost, I would like to come back to a point you made. You said that the training of each member of the Canadian Armed Forces included the development of good skills in various aspects: organization, the establishment of a chain of command that is easy to put in place, logistics and communications. Several hundred of these members are currently deployed.

I would like to know if this inherent training is required for each of the people involved in the field.

Is it necessary that only members of the Canadian Armed Forces be on site?

For example, would it be possible to have rapidly deployable civilians on the scene and only a few members of the Canadian Armed Forces to handle the logistics portion, communications, and in some way set the course of action?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

I thank the member for her question.

Regarding the first part of the question, I would say that the Canadian Armed Forces’ basic training allows our good soldiers to follow their orders and have a basic ability to act, as my colleague mentioned earlier. They also have a willingness to serve and help Canadians in need. They acquire certain capabilities through first aid courses as well as other basic skills to understand situations.

Regarding the second part of the question, I would say that when events like this occur, our state of readiness allows us to bring troops together quickly to discuss and train specifically for we’re expecting. One of the situations that comes to mind is forest fires, as was mentioned previously. In a case like that, the major-general and his teams do more specific forest fire training. They are very short training sessions, but the goal is to remind people of what they will have to do. So there’s basic general training for the entire Canadian Armed Forces, and then there’s ad hoc training depending on how they are used.

Finally, to answer the last question, I would say that it is quite possible. It would be more up to my colleagues at Public Safety Canada to answer it and describe what they see for the future. But at the moment, we have civil society, which has great capacity, and we have emergency measures organizations in each of the communities and provinces, and we all complement each other.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Ms. Mathyssen, you have two and a half minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

When a reservist is called to go and respond as needed, what steps do they have to take with their employers and how much time are they usually given?

[BGen Josh J. Major]

The process we go through is this. If we have an understanding that a disaster is incoming, like hurricane Fiona, it allows an opportunity for the reserve units to speak with their personnel. Their personnel, of course, then communicate with their employers.

We have a system in place where we have immediate response units. Of course, that's supported by domestic response companies, which comprise reservists. A number of reservists know that they are on a certain notice to move. They advise their employers of that.

Certainly, if we take hurricane Fiona as an example, the overwhelming amount of support and the number of our great reservists who were volunteering, even outside of the construct of the domestic response company to respond, have been tremendous. Certainly you will see that there is never really any issue in terms of a domestic response emerging to have our reservists ready to go in short order to respond to the needs of their communities.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I agree that these people are incredible. The fact that they're willing to respond so quickly is really quite amazing. It always makes me so grateful. Certainly, if I were on the other end, that would be what I would hope. But as we continue to rely upon them over and over, if this is going to increase, if we know that climate change emergencies are going to increase, do you foresee any sort of push-back, especially from the employer's side, of not being able to rely upon their employees in the regular way that they are needed for work?

[BGen Josh J. Major]

I can't speculate, unfortunately, about different companies or employers and how they feel in response to their local soldiers, sailors and aviators in the reserve force providing that support. I can say that we have a robust process in place where reservists, when they're on call, so to speak—of course, the notice to move is different from the one for the regular force—are able to provide their employers with an indication that they could be called up. In this particular case, we've seen no adverse effects.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Mr. Motz, you have five minutes plus 30 seconds.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you very much, Chair. I appreciate your graciousness.

Gentlemen, thank you for being here. We've talked for months now in this committee about the reality of a shortfall in human resources in the Canadian Armed Forces—significant resources. The reasons for that are complex, as we all know, but to me they have some connection. To me, it has some connection to CAF's response obligations to domestic emergencies.

I say that because in conversations with many current and former serving members of the armed forces, they cite some of the domestic obligations they had with training and in actual deployments as one of the reasons to which they attribute their early retirement, or for those who were seeking a possible career in the armed forces as a reason not to join the armed forces.

What are your thoughts on combatting this reality?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

I don't want to speculate here. I haven't seen any complaints that the response to domestic operations or international operations is one of the reasons that we have a shortfall in the members of the Canadian Forces. As we've just discussed, in the instance of the reserve, the reserve is a volunteer force. Nothing obliges reserve members to stay in the Canadian Armed Forces. They join us because they want to serve. They want to serve Canadians mainly in domestic operations but also in operations abroad. Should they not want to volunteer for an operation, they don't have to.

What we see time and again is that when there is a natural disaster crisis in Canada, more volunteers show up than we have employment for at the initial stages. As the crisis develops, then we're able to apply that manpower to—

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

I'm sorry, General. I'm not referring to reserve forces. I'm talking about regular forces. I can only repeat what I have been told by multiple members of the Canadian Armed Forces, both current and past.

Let me go back a bit. In early May, this committee heard testimony and a proposal by Josh Bowen. He indicated to the committee that the Government of Canada should establish a federally funded, volunteer-based national civilian disaster response organization that will work closely with NGOs to coordinate civilian capacity to respond to domestic emergencies.

In your estimation, gentlemen, what are the advantages and disadvantages of such an approach? What would be the implications to the Canadian Armed Forces deployment as a last-resort option, which they should be, and not first-resort?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

Maybe I'll start, but my answer will be very short, Mr. Chair.

I can't speculate, and I'm not involved in those discussions at all, but I think as climate change is happening, more and more natural disasters are likely to occur. The more resources we're able to provide in times of need to Canadians in response to any weather event...is good news.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Brigadier-General Major, go ahead.

[BGen Josh J. Major]

Thank you.

Of course, in line with General Prévost, I won't speculate. However, I can tell you that although the Canadian Armed Forces, of course, should be used as a force of last resort, will always prepare ourselves to be ready to respond to our number one priority, which is protecting Canadians in time of need.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

My question actually was quite simple. What are the advantages or disadvantages to use the Canadian Armed Forces...for such a civilian capacity organization to be stood up?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

We haven't looked at that in detail, Mr. Chair. What I'll say is that I can only see advantages at this point. The more we can work together at all levels of government on those issues, the better it will be in times of need.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you.

You mentioned earlier in your presentation, Major-General Prévost, that each province and territory has different capacities for emergency management response. I'm curious to know.... If there were emergency management capacity-building efforts provincially and territorially at the local level, would that reduce the need for CAF to deploy to assist civilian authorities on a regular basis, so it can truly be the last-resort option?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

I think, Mr. Chair—and I can't speculate, again—that the provinces over time, in recent years, have put in place better emergency management apparatuses. The discussion among the federal level, the provincial level and local communities is stronger than it's ever been.

What I mentioned before is that when there are shortages in staffing power to plan in response to events, this is where the Canadian Armed Forces can help. Obviously, there are many communities in Canada, and many are isolated communities. This is what our rangers provide in isolated and northern communities, this planning power to help local governments respond to those crises.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Motz.

Mr. Robillard, you have five minutes.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Do the Canadian Armed Forces require additional capacity to continue to respond to multiple national emergencies?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If I may, I will answer the question first, and then let my colleague provide a more detailed response.

The resources that the Canadian Forces need most right now are human resources. For a national response, we need people. The troops are currently mobilized to ensure that we can fill the ranks of the Canadian Forces with as many people as possible to reach our capacity. We are currently short 10,000 members, according to our mandate. This is the primary resource of most concern and the one we need to focus on. As for responding to national capacity, we can use a range of tools, and local authorities usually provide what we don’t have.

I’ll let Brigadier-General Major round out my answer.