Evidence of meeting #38 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was arctic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
November 3rd, 2022 / 11:35 a.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Dr. Perry, will the $3 billion that Minister Anand announced be enough to modernize NORAD and the North Warning System to the capabilities required now and into the future?
President, Canadian Global Affairs Institute, As an Individual
It's hard to say without knowing how fast that money can be spent. On a cash basis it's more like $87 billion. That is what the DND CFO said at a conference we hosted last week, but part of that depends on how quickly the money can get out the door.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
With respect to funding for subsurface surveillance, be it submarines or drones, given that we don't have the capability to get our surface ships built, let alone in the water, should we consider buying subs and drones from an ally with a demonstrated ability to complete the project on time and on budget?
President, Canadian Global Affairs Institute, As an Individual
We should very seriously look at that.
My understanding is that would basically require a government to take a policy exception to the current policy around acquiring Canadian ships in Canada, which I believe would include submarines. Given that additional technical complexity of building submarines versus just surface ships, which we have struggled with quite significantly, I think we should quite seriously look at the potential for taking a purchase like that offshore. We should weigh the pros and cons.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Okay. We haven't put an order in or made a contract with any company in Canada.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
How vulnerable would our low-earth orbit satellites be, given the capability of countries that pose a threat?
President, Canadian Global Affairs Institute, As an Individual
That's beyond my area of expertise.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Okay. I thought we mentioned low-earth orbit satellites with respect to the whole North Warning System. Do we know whether or not they could be shot down?
President, Canadian Global Affairs Institute, As an Individual
I think that's a potential risk, but it's not something I have particular expertise in.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
President Xi has pledged to make the PRC the country with the largest icebreaking fleet in the world.
Are Canada's current plans for Arctic security sufficient to counter potential Chinese aggression in the future?
President, Canadian Global Affairs Institute, As an Individual
I don't think they are at present. Part of that is fielding a fleet of new icebreakers. It's taken a very long time to not yet be at the point where we have a contract in place to replace new icebreakers. I would hope to see that move a lot faster from this point forward than it has, as well as the new Canadian Coast Guard icebreaking fleet being able to work in a more integrated fashion with the Canadian Navy going forward.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
What do you make of President Putin's call yesterday to modernize Russia's military weapons? Is that sabre-rattling, or is it something we should be concerned about?
President, Canadian Global Affairs Institute, As an Individual
I would say that the previous calls over the last 10 or 20 years to modernize Russian military capability actually resulted in modernized Russian military capability. I would not take it as sabre-rattling if he is talking about either conventional or nuclear forces. They have put a lot of money into those investments and delivered them.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
How important are the F-35s to the security of our nation, and particularly to our responsibilities to NORAD?
President, Canadian Global Affairs Institute, As an Individual
They're incredibly important and long overdue.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
They're long overdue.
Given our shortage of pilots, are you concerned that the delay in the F-35 procurement is without consequence, since at present we don't have the people to fly them?
President, Canadian Global Affairs Institute, As an Individual
Both of those issues, the planes and the people to fly them, are very serious problems. I would like to see more action more swiftly on fixing both of those issues.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Are there any other maritime capabilities we need, which haven't already been covered in this meeting with respect to Arctic sovereignty, that we should be talking about?
President, Canadian Global Affairs Institute, As an Individual
Underwater sensors would be an area that I think we should focus on, so likely acoustical devices. Basically, it's something you can put in the water at a place where you want to listen that's a key piece of real estate, to have an idea of who is operating there, even if you don't have your own ship or submarine in place.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Are there any different types of vessels that are not part of the SSE that we should be looking at, in addition to the submarines and drones you mentioned?
President, Canadian Global Affairs Institute, As an Individual
Within a wider network of sensors, there could be additional investments there, for both maritime assets in particular, but beyond that would be an integrated air and missile defence that would be able to cover a broad range of potential launch mechanisms.
Basically, we have some assets that could deal with some threats at sea with our new ships, prospectively, and we're going to have some ability to deal with cruise missiles with F-35s, once we acquire them.
We don't have a well-defined, integrated system to deal with a broad array of different missile threats.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Thank you, Madam Gallant.
Madam Lambropoulos, you have five minutes, please.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to both of our witnesses for being with us this morning to answer our questions.
I too was listening in and heard the divergence in opinion of the two witnesses. In this study, I also feel that many different people have different views, so it's really interesting to learn about the different perspectives that exist on this issue.
My first question will be for Dr. Lajeunesse.
You mentioned that the Arctic is not necessarily under threat by Russia, and you don't see a potential threat to our Arctic in the near future. However, at the same time you mentioned that its Arctic is something Russia values very much. A lot of its resources come from this area, so economically, it definitely is an area Russia focuses on.
You also referred to the fact that if we invested in our Arctic and improved our military capability in that region, it would perhaps force the Russians to shift their focus to their Arctic as well, because they may feel under threat.
Can you elaborate a little on this and explain more where you're coming from? Other witnesses we've heard from in previous panels have talked about the military capability of Russia to attack our Arctic, either through air or under water. Can you elaborate a bit on that and clear up your perspective?