National Defence Committee on Nov. 29th, 2022

[Dr. Peter Kikkert]

Yes, environmental change is absolutely making search and rescues more common, and the actual execution of those searches more difficult. Again, changing ice conditions, changing conditions on the land and changing turning seasons, all of these have led to increases in the number of searches across Nunavut, but it's also other things. It's loss of land, safety knowledge and traditional knowledge that is having an impact here. More severe weather is also linked to environmental change. There's a lot going on in this space to drive up the number of searches, not the least of which, of course, is increased outside activity.

Calvin's search and rescue group in Cambridge Bay actually has been quite busy rescuing ecotourists who are skiing between Cambridge Bay and Gjoa Haven, which I think is a really good example of some of the new pressures that are put on the SAR system by increased outside activity.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

I heard you speaking with my colleague earlier about the rangers and about how they don't necessarily want for more rangers but for better capabilities, to be trained better and to be able to operate better. You were mentioning also that there's a greater need, in the sense that there are more search and rescue operations because of global warming, with more people going up to the northern areas. I'm wondering if you see a potential for more rangers to be recruited.

I know that another question was about recruitment of the armed forces, and the rangers really do play a particular role in protecting the Arctic. I'm wondering if you can give us your opinion on whether or not there is capacity for growth. Other witnesses in the past have told us that it's pretty much maxed out, in the sense that as many people as could be in there are in there. I'd like to hear your opinion on that.

[Dr. Peter Kikkert]

I think the room for expansion should be taken on a community-by-community basis, but I would align myself more with what Calvin was saying there, that the number of rangers doesn't need to be increased, but maybe their operational capabilities and their training opportunities do.

In terms of search and rescue, I would highlight that across the 1 CRPG, which covers the Yukon, the Northwest Territories and Nunavut, rangers were only officially activated twice for search and rescue this year. The rangers wear lots of hats, so they're often volunteers on the ground search and rescue teams in their communities. They're often members of the Coast Guard auxiliary units that go out to do marine searches. I think that's a really important distinction. The training that is given to rangers is not always just used in an official capacity, but is often used to bolster the search and rescue system on a voluntary basis.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Lambropoulos.

Ms. Normandin, you have the floor for four minutes.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My first question is for Dr. Kikkert.

We recently heard from the Canadian Coast Guard and the Royal Canadian Navy that, for certain large-scale operations, there had to be collaboration with other states, including Russia.

Is this something we're seeing from the Canadian Rangers as well? Do you occasionally have an obligation to work with other states in rescue operations?

[Dr. Peter Kikkert]

From an international perspective, our search and rescue responsibilities absolutely depend upon international co-operation, particularly in the North American Arctic. I can think of really close ties between the Canadian Coast Guard and the joint Arctic command in Greenland, or our partners in Alaska. Those international dimensions are essential for proper search and rescue response.

I'd also just say, though, that the connections and the co-operation among Canadian governments, departments and agencies could also stand to be improved, particularly for low-probability, high-consequence events like a mass rescue operation. That will be an “all hands on deck” situation that will require mass co-operation across the federal, territorial and regional governments, but also with our international partners.

Yes, I think there's a lot of space to improve our international engagement on search and rescue.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Along the same lines, could you tell us about the co‑operation with the Royal Canadian Navy and the Canadian Coast Guard and what, if anything, could be improved?

[Dr. Peter Kikkert]

Just generally, I think creating more spaces for the various actors involved in search and rescue in mass rescue operations and in maritime disasters needs to be improved. They need to have more space for people to talk, to engage and to plan on an ongoing basis. It gets back to this idea in emergency management that plans are useless but planning is everything. They need the chance to sit down, hash through plans, hash through roles and responsibilities, and really figure out how to do this. There's nothing more complex and nothing more challenging than a mass rescue operation in the Arctic. The more planning and the more relationships we can build in the lead-up to this, the better that will actually occur.

Part of the round tables we just held were tabletop exercises trying to figure out these different roles and responsibilities. I can say that there is room for improvement on that to make sure that everyone is crystal clear and on the same page with regard to who is responsible for what.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Dr. Kikkert.

Dr. Vullierme, I'd like to ask you a quick question.

You mentioned the spirit of collaboration between the rangers and the local communities. The communities are willing to lend a hand, and they could be given a little more training.

Is that potential being sufficiently used? Have you found that these communities are an underutilized resource, in a way?

[Dr. Magali Vullierme]

Yes and no. Actually, the rangers are part of the communities. In the north, for example, the rangers are Inuit living in Inuit communities. They are leaders who are part of those communities. So those resources are already very well used.

Let me explain the situation a little more. We were talking about the recruitment of rangers, but, as Dr. Kikkert said, the goal is not to recruit more rangers, but to train them better.

However, in the medium and long term, the absolute necessity will really be to support the Junior Canadian Ranger program. Without juniors, there will be no rangers in a few years, since there won't be enough people from the communities who know their environment well and who know how to survive in their environment. So there is a real need to support this youth program.

This program is very popular. In Quebec, for example, there are more junior patrols than ranger patrols. So there is a whole pool of young people who will potentially be recruited into ranger patrols later on.

We need to build on this younger generation, who are eager to participate in the community, who are eager to play a role, and who also look to the rangers as leaders, role models and examples for the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Normandin.

Ms. Mathyssen, you have four minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you so much to all the witnesses, whether they can speak to us or not. I appreciate everyone taking this time with us today.

Mr. Kikkert, you talked about the Canadian Rangers having their own equipment. They like having their own equipment and being able to control that, fixing it and using it for their own use, and then renting it out when it's needed by other organizations or that search and rescue prospect. You also said that an increase in the equipment usage rate would be helpful. Has that payment kept up with the increase in inflation and costs thereof?

[Dr. Peter Kikkert]

This is where Calvin would be much better to comment on that. He was just on patrol this summer.

I would say that what I've heard from rangers—Calvin, nod if this is correct—is that the equipment usage rate has not really kept up with these changes or with inflation. I think a really notable contribution from a ranger perspective would be to increase that equipment usage rate and to make sure they could reinvest in their machines, in their tools and their equipment, which would make them far more effective on the land as rangers but also on the land as hunters feeding their families and as fishers feeding their families.

So yes, increase that usage rate. I think that's the message that Calvin would definitely be passing along here, and I agree with it.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

We got the thumbs-up. That's good.

With regard to the organization of that, knowing what's involved in terms of the inventory and being able to call on those pieces and the people involved, not just the equipment but also the people, is there anybody who organizes that overall? Is that more necessary? We had heard about a lack of understanding of what inventory we even have up in the north. Is that a problem?

[Dr. Peter Kikkert]

From a ranger patrol group headquarters, I think they have a really good feel for how many rangers they have in their communities and what resources those rangers have access to. I don't see it as a particular problem for the 1st Canadian Ranger Patrol Group.

Dr. Vullierme can maybe talk about that from a 2nd Canadian Ranger Patrol Group perspective a bit more. Certainly, ranger HQ has a fairly good feel for what its rangers can and cannot do in the north.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I would love it if you could send the committee your paper, “Strengthening Search and Rescue in Nunavut: Approaches and Options”. If you could table that with the committee, it would be appreciated.

I think within that, you called for a public safety officer or office. Can you explain that and why you think that would be helpful?

[Dr. Peter Kikkert]

Yes. Actually, that's an idea that I codeveloped with Calvin. There's more that we have written on that since then. I would be happy to send that along.

I think one of the ideas that come out of our work on search and rescue is that some communities have 30 to 35 searches a year, which is a ton of work for volunteer search and rescue coordinators. It's not just the search; it's the organizing, the fuel, the food and the paperwork. It's a drain.

One of the ideas that came out was, what if we had paid search and rescue coordinators at the community level? Some communities only have one or two searches a year. Is that really justifiable across Inuit Nunangat? The response to that, which we worked on, was, what about a community public safety officer position that could do search and rescue coordination, that would do emergency preparedness, that would do marine safety, that could go into the schools and educate about SAR prevention and that could fulfill all of these kinds of safety, resiliency and emergency management tasks at the community level? This would, of course, be a local individual with local ties to the community, who could really easily integrate themselves into the broader community makeup.

That was the idea for a community public officer program. We tied together search and rescue and a whole bunch of other requirements and needs in northern communities. It would also act as this individual at the local level who could bridge these different federal and territorial agencies that have different pieces of this pie—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

What's your point of order?

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I would like to suggest that since Mr. Pedersen is such an incredible witness whom we cannot hear, if we could get him the appropriate headset, we could invite him back to the committee. Of course, he can submit whatever he wants to in writing to the committee.

It would be really valuable to hear from him. To take that time would be helpful.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

That's not a point of order, but it's a good suggestion. It's one that I was going make at the end of the committee meeting.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Great minds....

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

That's a scary thought right there.

Mr. Pedersen has probably had the best presentation so far today and he hasn't said a word.

With that, we're down to 15 minutes, colleagues. We're down to three minutes each.

We're starting with Mrs. Gallant for three minutes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Actually, Mr. Chair, Mr. Kelly is going to go first.