National Defence Committee on May 2nd, 2023

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for attending, and also acknowledging the fact that over the last number of years there has been increased spending, there has been increased modernization and an increased understanding and awareness of the requirement to modernize our supports, increasing in our operations, as well as enhancing and improving the cultural aspects of the armed forces. I commend you on those two counts.

For my first question, let's start with the health investments made by the Canadian Armed Forces. You can appreciate that we're talking a lot about health in our committees now with regard to what it means, particularly for women and advancing the workplace and safety of the environment. Could you comment on those aspects, please?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the question of my honourable colleague.

I want to say that from the very moment I was appointed, my top priority has been to address issues relating to culture in the Canadian Armed Forces, to ensure that we are building an institution where everyone in our country feels welcome, regardless of their race, their ethnicity, their religion, their sexual orientation and disability.

The key is that institutional change takes time, but what we are doing is ensuring that we have a plan, which is why in December 2022 I accepted all 48 recommendations of Madame Arbour and set forward a road map for the implementation of those recommendations. That was somewhat unprecedented in the way our government responds to reports, because what I wanted to do is to say to the House of Commons that we're serious about this and this is our plan.

In terms of allocated spending, in budget 2022 we announced $144 million over five years and $31 million ongoing to expand health services, to expand physical fitness programs, to be more responsive to women and gender-diverse members; and we're continuing to advance initiatives to meet clinical, occupational and deployment needs.

As a racialized woman myself, I want to stress that I feel very deeply about issues relating to discrimination, sexual harassment, sexual misconduct, inclusivity and diversity. Some people may call that woke; for me, it's just my actual everyday life. I will continue working on that with my team, with the chief of the defence staff and with the deputy minister for as long as it takes, because this is crucial.

We are modernizing the Canadian Armed Forces, and we are making sure everybody feels welcome. It's going to take time, but we have a plan.

Thank you.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

There are some items in these estimates that also make reference to the purchase of the next generation of fighter jets. I was wondering if you could provide some detail as to how these funds are necessarily being used.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

First of all, I want to note that the contract we signed is thanks to a rigorous, open and transparent competition that this government conducted free from political interference. National Defence is seeking $19.8 million to commence implementation activities in these estimates, and F-35 deliveries will begin in 2026, and they will support initial training that will be conducted in the United States.

We have to, however, prepare for the arrival of these jets here in this country, so we've already taken steps to prepare for the construction of fighter squadron facilities in Bagotville and in Cold Lake, which I know is good news for those bases.

We're also seeking $154 million to advance construction on forces bases across this country so that we can make sure we're using the newest infrastructure, modernizing and recapitalizing existing infrastructure. One of the greatest things about the F-35s is that they're going to allow us to be interoperable with our allies. But in order for that interoperability to take hold, we have to have the technology on the ground in the bases so that we are operating on the same footing as our allies, and that's the work we are doing right now at National Defence.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have a little bit more than a minute.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Can we talk a little bit about the cultural change? I see a lot of effort with regard to our infrastructure and we're doing great procurement, we're advancing the cause with our jurisdictions around the world and we're trying to ensure we stay ahead, or at least maintain strong presence and collaboration. How is that collaboration happening inside and the cultural...? We've had some challenges there, and since you've been there, some great, positive things have been happening, so can you clarify a little bit about that?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

As I mentioned, institutional change of this sort is difficult, but not impossible. However, what is required is collaboration from leadership, which we have here around the table and throughout the organization, so that we're all pulling in the same direction. It is not enough for the Minister of National Defence to say that she's against discrimination and in favour of inclusivity and diversity. At all levels throughout our country, we need to ensure that we are all on the same page to modernize the Canadian Armed Forces.

One of my priorities as Minister of National Defence is to visit bases across this country, to speak with the forces members themselves and to hear what they care about and what they want. More often than not, women, especially, on those bases will pull me aside and whisper in my ear to say, “Thank you for the work you're doing on culture change.”

Those aren't the people who are in the media every day. Those are the people who are seeing meaningful change on the ground.

To all forces members who are working so hard to reform this institution, I want to say thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Okay, we're going to have to—

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

To all forces members who see the need for this change, I want to say thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Sousa.

Over to you, Ms. Normandin, for six minutes.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

Thank you to the minister, General Eyre and the senior officials for being here today. It's always a pleasure to have them.

I'm going to preface my first question with a comment. There's a fairly strong consensus around the table on the support we should be providing to Ukraine, and we're glad to receive requests that we can accommodate. It is, however, legitimate to ask questions about the way in which those requests are fulfilled. The case that comes to mind involves 200 light armoured vehicles that were sent to Ukraine after the untendered contract for the equipment was awarded to Roshel. The issue is back in the news.

At the time, questions were raised about the fact that the contract had been awarded without a call for tenders. Now weare learning that bribery and financial pressure may have been why the contract was awarded on a sole-source basis, possibly costing Canadian taxpayers more than a contract with another supplier. It's reported that it may have cost 35% more to procure the Roshel Senator armoured vehicles.

At the time, the government's reason for awarding the sole-sourced contract was that Ukraine's defence minister, Mr. Reznikov, had requested those armoured vehicles specifically. We later found out that President Zelenskyy had threatened to fire Mr. Reznikov over allegations of collusion.

Should DND review its criteria for awarding a contract in response to a request from Ukraine?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you for your question.

It's important to keep in mind that Ukraine is at war and desperately needs military assistance. It needs that assistance now, and that's why Minister Reznikov asked me for specific equipment for Ukraine, including the armoured vehicles. The contract is the product of a conversation with, and letters from, the Ukrainian government regarding the equipment it needed at the time. The most important thing was making sure that Ukraine had the equipment it needed at that time.

By the same token, contract integrity is very important. We will always ensure the integrity of our contracts. That means contracts are subject to a rigorous review process and due diligence before being awarded. We continue to support Ukraine in accordance with the law.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Unfortunately, Minister, it's expected that the conflict will be ongoing, that it will grind on, and that Ukraine will make more requests.

I'll phrase my question another way. Will the fact that a request for military equipment comes from Ukraine always be the only consideration in awarding that contract, even though we now know collusion took place and could therefore take place again? The government did not engage at all with the rest of the industry to determine whether another product might be competitive. Did the Roshel equipment cost 35% more—$100,000 per vehicle—as compared with the cost of similar products available from other industry manufacturers?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I have two points to raise.

First, we initiated an audit, and we inspected all the numbers, records and documents related to the contract in place.

Second, the allegations were not proven. A decision was made to resume full production while the audit was being conducted. It's important to keep in mind that we have to follow a process. We have to ensure the integrity of all our contracts and all suppliers that have contracts with the Government of Canada. I'd like to talk about the process now.

In the future, if there are suppliers in your riding, my department can speak with them. You are right that the war could go on for quite some time, so we should make sure that all our suppliers have an opportunity to share in the economic benefits.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

The problem in this case is that suppliers weren't aware that equipment was needed because there wasn't a call for tenders. Am I to understand that you are open to the idea of establishing an expedited tendering process to deal with urgent requests, instead of routinely signing mutually agreeable contracts?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I will say that our top priority, each and every time, is to ensure we get high-quality equipment in the hands of the Ukrainian armed forces, while ensuring the integrity of contracting within the balance of our law.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Madame Normandin.

Ms. Mathyssen, you have six minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Minister, General and officials for coming today. I appreciate your time.

At the 2017 United Nations peacekeeping defence ministerial conference, the government promised a 200-member quick-reaction force by March 2020. That's now been pushed back twice. We're now looking at a deadline of March 2026. In order for the United Nations to be able to plan and do what they need to do, they need to know they can rely upon those peacekeepers from Canada. It's something Canadians have come to identify with, in terms of our contributions around the world. The international community is relying upon that.

How are you going to ensure we meet that new, recent timeline?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Let me start off by saying, first of all, thank you for the question.

We are committed to supporting peace, stability and security, and that's why we have a range of support for peace operations around the world. In fact, Canada is one of the top 10 financial contributors to the United Nations peacekeeping operations.

What our Canadian armed forces are doing is providing tailored and specialized military contributions to ongoing UN peace support operations, including in the area of training on the role of women peacekeepers in UN operations. We recently renewed our commitment to provide tactical airlift support to UN peace operations in Africa.

In terms of the question, we are continuing to look for ways to contribute to UN operations.

I will ask General Eyre whether he has anything further on the question.

[General Wayne D. Eyre, Chief of the Defence Staff, Canadian Armed Forces, Department of National Defence]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Chair, we have to remember that a quick-reaction force is only employed when the situation is very bad. It has to be prepared to fight. Before we put a 200-person quick-reaction force anywhere, we need to make sure that the enablers are in place that go around that—the casualty evacuation, the intelligence, the fire support and the line of communication logistics required to ensure that element is set up for success.

I've been on a UN peacekeeping mission where that was not in place and where we ended up being over-matched by one of the sides. We had some pretty intense combat because we were put into a situation where we did not have those enablers. We have to make sure that, wherever we send Canadian troops, we give them the tools that are necessary.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I wouldn't deny that we want our people to be ready for what they have to go into, absolutely.

Why would you set a deadline for March 2022—another deadline that was missed—and now 2026, when you weren't able to meet it in the first place?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

What Canada does is regularly engage with UN officials to assess where and when a quick-reaction force may be required. Any deployment of a QRF would follow a specific decision by the Government of Canada to do so in support of a specific UN mission within clearly defined parameters, building on chief of the defence staff's comments just now.

It is an iterative process of examining the global situation and the requests that we receive from the United Nations, understanding our other missions and operations in the same context.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I am going to switch gears. We have been waiting for you to come for a while, so I have a lot of questions.

Of course, I am happy to see that a tentative deal has been reached with the PSAC. That was a long time coming, but there are these workers who work for the Union of National Defence Employees. They serve and support our troops. They're doing essential work for the Department of National Defence.

Can you tell us, Minister, how many times you've met directly with Union of National Defence Employees since becoming the minister?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I will ask my deputy minister to take all questions relating to the strike, but I will say that I am extremely pleased that a negotiated solution was found so that we can continue doing the important work to serve the population of our country.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I am glad, but my direct question was how many times you yourself have met directly with the union that works for DND.