National Defence Committee on May 2nd, 2023

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I have not had the opportunity, but would welcome it.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Can you explain why, in the entire time you've been minister, you have not once met with the union?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

As I said, I would welcome an opportunity to meet with them.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Could you provide an explanation as to why you haven't met with them yet? It's been quite a while. One would expect that one of the first people you would meet with would be the president of such a large group of people who work directly under you who serve our troops. Is that correct?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I meet with a large range of stakeholders, including defence employees, and I'll continue to be welcoming and have my open-door policy for those meetings.

Thank you.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

The union votes on a president, their representative, just as the people in your riding vote for you as their representative. Don't you think that it would be important to build those relations and to understand what those employees are dealing with?

A lot has been said about sexual misconduct, and some of the issues that employees within Defence itself and the department deal with as well, not just within the CAF. I'd think that you would want to hear about those issues directly from their main representative, the president of that union.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I most definitely—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

That may be an important question, but—

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

—do want to hear from them, and I have met with hundreds of employees across our country.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

—the time is up.

With that, colleagues, I take note that the minister has to leave.

I think we can get in a full round.

Madam Kramp-Neuman, you have five minutes.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you, Minister, General and officials, for coming.

A letter signed by 60 of Canada's top former military leaders stated:

...the recent federal budget was largely a summary of previous announcements without any acknowledgement that the Government must accelerate program spending, and make significant additional funding available to address the long-standing deficiencies....

Given the multi-partisanship and the genuine concern expressed in this letter, Minister, how are you going to ensure that the budget allocates the necessary funding to deal with the existing deficiencies?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I agree that we need to continue to examine our spending, how we ensure that allocated spending gets out the door and allocate additional spending to new and emerging threats.

On that latter point, what we are undertaking now is a defence policy update. What is driving that update are the current and future needs of the Canadian Armed Forces in the current threat environment, which has changed since 2017 and our defence policy of “Strong, Secure, Engaged”.

The unjustifiable, illegal war in Ukraine by Russia is just one example. Cyber-threats are another example. The increasing tensions in the Indo-Pacific are another example. All of these global situations are ones that did not necessarily exist in the same way in 2017 when we put forth our “Strong, Secure, Engaged” policy.

The defence policy update, where we consult with hundreds and hundreds of stakeholders, is part of the next phase of growing the Canadian Armed Forces.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you for that.

The CDA Institute has stated that “even our critical Five-Eyes relationships require that we invest sufficiently to earn our seat at the table.”

Given the emergence of AUKUS, is Canada being left out of the conversation and intelligence-sharing networks with our allies?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Canada has very strong relationships with our Five Eyes allies. On a range of topics, I meet regularly with those Five Eyes allies, in particular on issues relating to intelligence-sharing, relating to providing military aid to Ukraine and relating to our co-operation in the Indo-Pacific. Our close friends and Five Eyes allies...in terms of a partnership, it remains very strong.

Through our Indo-Pacific strategy, for example, we're investing approximately $500 million in four defence initiatives to boost our military presence in the region. Through NORAD, we are working very closely with the United States. As I said, I am in frequent contact with our Five Eyes counterparts. We will continue to work with them to keep Canadians safe.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

With regard to the United States, former Canadian ambassador to NATO Kerry Buck has been quoted emphasizing the impact that shortfalls have on Canada's international reputation and our reputation with our U.S. partners.

In concert with what you were just suggesting, can you speak to the continued reliance on the U.S. and the international tensions that are continuing to rise?

Is Canada prepared to not only defend itself, but to actually be an effective partner with the United States?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you for the question.

Most definitely, yes. We are partnering very closely with the United States on NORAD modernization and continental defence. For example, there's almost $40 billion that we, as a government, have put on the table to modernize our continental defence. Part and parcel of that process is my strong relationship with Secretary Austin.

All the way through our teams in defence, we are seeing a very close working relationship. This was emphasized by President Biden when he visited the House of Commons, for example. It was also emphasized and underlined recently, when we co-operated under the binational command of NORAD regarding the suspected balloons.

This is work that we'll continue to do together with the United States.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Perfect. Thank you for that.

You suggested the additional spending. It's always additional spending and additional announcements. Going back to that open letter I spoke to earlier, it talks of how years of restraint, cost-cutting, downsizing and deferred investments have meant that Canada's defence capabilities have atrophied.

How is the feedback being received? Are officials changing the operations and approach taken by the ministry?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Again, asking a question with only 15 seconds left is never going to get us through this agenda.

You have five minutes, Mr. Fisher.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here with your team. Thank you for coming out to Nova Scotia. I know you and your associate minister there love getting back home.

We had an opportunity, as you know, to visit the defence research and development command, the DRDC. I think about the way they partner with the private sector. They partner with industry. So many of the partners that the DRDC is using are located right in Dartmouth—Cole Harbour. Many of them are Canadian-focused as well.

We've heard an awful lot at this committee that new and emerging technologies are challenging the security environment. We need to invest to keep pace and to adjust to the threats of these technologies, while also ensuring that we're working with industry to develop our own capacity in Canada.

Can you walk us through how National Defence is working to address these challenges?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you. I'm glad you mentioned DRDC, Defence Research and Development Canada, because it ties into the last question that was asked about our Five Eyes allies. At DRDC last week, we discussed projects that they are undertaking with Five Eyes allies in research and subsurface capabilities.

In terms of intelligence gathering with our Five Eyes allies, the chief of the CSE, Caroline Xavier, is here today—and every single day she and her team are in touch with these allies. This is an ongoing and very strong relationship with our Five Eyes partners. We witnessed it at DRDC last week again.

Regarding your question about ensuring that we are technologically advancing, I want to stress that we will continue to work with industry to develop our own capacity in Canada. We know that the pace of technological development is presenting new security challenges, as your question suggests. We are continually making sure that we can take advantage of, and defend against, emerging defence capabilities and threats.

I'll just give you a couple of examples of the types of things we're undertaking to ensure that we are ready, that we are maintaining the priority of innovation in advancing the defence agenda. For example, in main estimates, we are requesting $19 million to fund research in areas critical to future defence and security needs. We're also requesting $5 million in grant money that's going to be used for contest prizes, including things like advancing robotics and integrated systems for relocatable, temporary camps. We have programs called IDEaS and MINDS, which stimulate innovation by bringing solutions from the community at large back to DND to enhance defence capabilities. In addition, we're requesting $2.25 million in contribution money to support ongoing collaboration with multidisciplinary networks of experts in addressing key policy issues of the day.

All of that is in response to your question. Innovation, technological development, in conjunction with industry and the greatest minds in our country, is a top priority for us.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

In that regard, it's interesting that we also talked about the techies, the young people coming up with all those skills, possibly helping with retention and recruiting down the road.

Minister, I'm interested in your thoughts on the importance of investing in our naval capabilities. This morning I met with shipbuilders from Unifor Marine Workers Federation Local 1. I have to tell you that the sense of pride in the room was absolutely incredible. They're just so proud to be providing ships for Canada's military. I'm interested in your thoughts on that.

I want to give a quick shout-out as well to both Adams and Shannon, actual shipbuilders who visited me today in Ottawa. Again, they're so proud of what they do for the Canadian government.

Do you have any thoughts on the investment in our naval capabilities?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have about 30 seconds, please.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I'm so glad you asked the question, Mr. Chair, primarily because this year is the 100th anniversary of the naval reserve. We should definitely be celebrating Canada's naval contributions, and certainly Nova Scotia's naval contributions as well.

In shipbuilding, we are seeing marked success in the projects under the national shipbuilding strategy. I want to point to the Arctic offshore patrol ships, for example. In these estimates, we're requesting $345 million to continue construction of the three remaining ships. That means there are three ships in the water, which are incredibly important for maintaining a naval presence.

We are also requesting funding for the Canadian surface combatants, 15 ships, to support shipyard and other infrastructure initiatives.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unfortunately, we're going to have to leave it there.

You have two and half minutes, Madame Normandin.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I'm going to come back to the issue of procurement. You said that the urgency of a request could warrant the signing of a mutually agreeable contract. That urgency does not exist in all cases, however—the replacement of the CP‑140 Auroras, for instance. According to the government's timeline, the project won't get under way until 2027‑28, and the first delivery isn't expected until 2032‑33.

Why wasn't there a call for tenders, given what we recently found out about the production problems and delays at Boeing, the company the government seems to be eyeing to replace the fleet? Why wasn't there a call for tenders for such a major project? It's a fair question.