National Defence Committee on Jan. 29th, 2024

[MGen Paul Prévost]

I will take that one. Again, I wouldn't say hostile action, but we're concerned about the way the PLA Navy has been acting around our ships and around our aircraft.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

No hostile action around the Cyclones as well—is that right?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

I'm sorry.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Our Cyclones have had some run-ins you might say.

[MGen Paul Prévost]

That is correct, and we're concerned about the behaviour. It's wholly in China's rights to intercept our military assets in the region in international waters. At the same time we're concerned about the way they're going about it, and we're having the discussions with China to try to professionalize the intercept.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Would you described their actions and interactions with the Royal Canadian Navy and the Royal Canadian Air Force as careless?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

I would say it's of concern. “Careless” is probably a good term.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Going to Operation Neon in North Korea, Mrs. Gallant was talking about both the testing of cruise missiles—a capability they haven't had until recently—and firing that into waters near South Korea, as well as the very recent rocket launch and satellites that were put into orbit definitely giving them more reach with ballistic missiles.

How big of a concern is that to the Canadian Armed Forces in protecting our own airspace but also protecting the region?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

It's of concern. We're obviously following it. Every time North Korea launches something our intelligence folks spend quite some time studying what's going on there. It is of concern for the region obviously, but this is also why we have the Indo-Pacific strategy here to bring stability and security to the region by ensuring a presence with allies to make sure we deter, as much as possible, those actions.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I would hope with our allies, as we look at the increasing threats both in the South China Sea and the east Thomas Shoal and at the interaction between the PLA Navy and the Philippine Coast Guard, that we would do more in working together and ensuring that there are proper defences in place, like we're doing in NATO along the eastern flank.

Mr. Chair, with the time I have left, I want to move a motion that I gave notice of. I move:

That, given the testimony from witnesses at the Nova Scotia Legislature’s Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs, which repudiated denials from the Department of National Defence regarding military homelessness, and given that there is widespread and incontrovertible evidence that after eight years of Justin Trudeau as Prime Minister our military members can’t afford food or housing, the committee invite the Minister of Housing; the Executive Director of the Royal Canadian Legion Nova Scotia/Nunavut Command; the Director of Emergency Management for the Halifax Regional Municipality; and the Executive Director of the Halifax & Region Military Family Resource Centre to answer questions on the military housing crisis.

Mr. Chair, I'm sure that over the holidays members saw the stories in the Halifax Chronicle. The first one came on December 21. There was a hearing done at the Nova Scotia Legislature on unhoused members of the Canadian Armed Forces and this is, in my mind, a travesty that is happening. It's unfortunate that our serving military heroes have been forced to live in tents and use food banks.

We had a number of different quotes from Craig Hood, the executive director of the Royal Canadian Legion, talking about couch surfing, living rough in tents, living in their vehicles and entering into unsafe relationships to secure housing at risk of domestic violence. He described this as a serious incident or an epidemic that needs to be tackled. That is from Craig Hood.

Ryan Taplin, a 33-year-old military veteran, is also talking about the need to use more benevolent funds in the Legion to support current serving members. This is unheard of.

Erica Fleck, director of emergency management for the Halifax Regional Municipality, said that she's also identified an increase in the number of active-duty members who are unhoused and who have only precarious housing. This speaks to the housing crisis in Halifax and the region.

I was hoping that we'd have a 106(4) emergency meeting on this to discuss having an expansion to our current housing study and having these extra witnesses invited. I think that four meetings are not enough to tackle this issue, knowing the crisis out there, especially when numbers at the Canadian Armed Forces are living in the cold and have been left out there. I reached out to both our Bloc and NDP colleagues and, unfortunately, couldn't get them to sign on to a 106(4), but I'm hopeful that they would support expanding the study and inviting these witnesses, along with the Minister of Housing.

This is Minister Fraser's backyard. He represents Nova Scotia, and I would hope that, as the Minister of Housing, he would be able to talk about how he's addressing this crisis in Nova Scotia and elsewhere that's impacting the Canadian Armed Forces.

I also would hope that Mr. Fillmore and Mr. Fisher, who have CFB Halifax and 12 Wing Shearwater in their ridings would also be supportive of this to ensure that we address this issue in an expeditious manner so that we can ensure that those who are serving us.... We ask them to sacrifice a lot in operations. We aren't asking them to live on the streets while they're in service to Canada.

With that, Mr. Chair, I hope that we can support this motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Bezan.

The motion is in order, and when notice is properly done....

Given that this may be a matter of some debate, can I release the witnesses? It's kind of unfortunate. It's very difficult to get all witnesses together in one place at one time, and this is a bit of an unfortunate situation. I'm anticipating that it will occupy the balance of the time that we've designated for this meeting, so can I release the witnesses?

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

If I may, in response to your question, if there is no debate and we go straight to a vote, we would have time for witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I already have two people who want to debate it.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

I'll come off if everybody else does.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I'm looking for consensus here.

Should we release them or shouldn't we?

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Is this point of order on whether I release the witnesses?

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Yes. The only thing I would say, Mr. Chair, with all due respect to my great colleagues, is that we do have witnesses today. We understand...and actually it was a motion on housing that you brought forward that actually derailed some of the calendars that were established last year. We completely agreed all together. We agreed to go on to housing and the importance of housing on base. I'm not disputing this.

What I would say is that could we look—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

It is a point of order. The point of order is whether I may release the witnesses under the circumstances, not the merits of the motion.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

No—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I can't release the witnesses...?

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to have the floor if you may allow me to explain why I think we should possibly keep our witnesses to continue on this very important topic, while still looking at how we can agree, through consensus, to look at the motion on maybe another day when we don't have witnesses here. That's my argument, my point that I would like to make.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I'm sure they'll be thrilled with watching this debate. Carry on.

With that, Mrs. Lalonde, go ahead on the substance of the motion.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

I'm hoping, actually, that we can go back to our witnesses, because they are here and we saw some very relevant questions by all of us. I think there is merit to hearing the decision that was made on our calendars going forward.

Thank you for giving me the floor, Mr. Chair, because I do value the importance of having possibly a new list or of looking at our list on our housing study. Indeed, it's very relevant. I just find it always entertaining, if I can say that, that we always conflict ourselves or confront ourselves when we have an ability to hear senior-ranking officials, who come and take the time out of their busy day to listen to us and to give us the explanations we want.

Certainly, the motion on the premises sounds interesting. We are studying housing. I hope, Mr. Chair, that we'll go back to housing and complete that study. I don't know if the value of what Mr. Bezan is proposing can all be agreed upon today. I think there's merit in certain witnesses being included. He brought his list of witnesses when he proposed his own study.

Looking at this motion, there would be possibly a potential amendment that we would make. Could we look at this another day and continue to listen to our witnesses on the Indo-Pacific? If this is not something that the committee is willing to consider, then I would say, yes, Mr. Chair, you would have to release our witnesses, unfortunately, and then we will speak for a very long time together to amend this wonderful motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unless I'm reading the committee wrong, I don't see any appetite to adjourn this debate or to release the witnesses.

The next one up would be Mr. Kelly.