National Defence Committee on March 2nd, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I'm calling this meeting to order. We are continuing our study of threat analysis and the Canadian Armed Forces' operational readiness to meet those threats. This has been an outstanding study and we've had outstanding witnesses, and today's panel is no exception.

Admiral Auchterlonie has a hard stop at 4:30, and there are rumours that there will be interruptions. I'm seeking unanimous consent that we will be able to continue our meeting until any vote is called in the next hour. I don't want to lose the time. I've talked to the Conservatives; I've talked to the Liberals; I haven't talked to the NDP, but I've talked to the Bloc about using the time. I need a motion for unanimous consent to carry on.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

You mean a motion to carry on until what point? When the bells start, would we go on and get ready for the vote?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Are the bells ringing already?

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

The bells are ringing already. We started the meeting already so we can—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I suppose we did. In theory I have to stop it unless I get unanimous consent to continue with the meeting.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Are they 30-minute bells or 15-minute bells?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

They're 30-minute bells. We might as well make use of the 30 minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Will we be given specific time in suspension to vote?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

When the whips call the vote, we have to suspend. We'll use this 30 minutes.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

No, it's 25 minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Well, we'll use the 25 minutes or whatever it is, and then we should be good.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Does that work for these folks?

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Yes, but the whips have to talk about it.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

With that, our procedure is out of the way. We certainly squeezed that one in. I'll call on Admiral Auchterlonie first to give his five minutes and then General Wright after that. We'll go for as long as we can before we have to suspend.

I dare say, Admiral Auchterlonie, by the time we vote, that will probably be it for you, but if General Wright could stay around, that would be helpful before we empanel our next set of panellists. We'll see how that plays out. Again I apologize for all of this procedural stuff. Welcome to the ways of democracy.

Admiral Auchterlonie, please go ahead for five minutes.

[Vice-Admiral J.R. Auchterlonie, Commander of the Canadian Joint Operations Command, Department of National Defence]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm Vice-Admiral Bob Auchterlonie, chief of joint operations and commander of our Canadian Forces operations.

Canadian Joint Operations Command, or CJOC, is the force employer. My role is to take our forces and deploy them in operations, whether that's domestically, in North America or anywhere in the world, including on NATO, coalition or UN operations.

Since CJOC is focused on the employment of our forces, we are very aware of the threats to Canada and the threats the forces need to address. Domestically, we have just been through two years of a global health threat. We've been conducting Operation Laser, which has seen the Canadian Armed Forces involved in support of long-term care facilities, local and northern communities, and assisting other government departments with their planning logistics.

The Canadian Armed Forces also helped organize and support the distribution of vaccines across Canada, and/or deployed CAF members and other government departments around the world through Operation Vector.

Though the Canadian Armed Forces should always be considered a force of last resort, in these cases the demonstrated effects of changing climate have also created greater demand for the CAF resources and support.

It's not just natural disasters or otherwise traditional threats that pose a risk here at home. We have seen an increase in cyber-attacks in our private and public spheres. We have seen growing assertiveness and aggressiveness in the Arctic from our strategic competitors. Deliberate misinformation and disinformation strategies have been aimed at both the Canadian Armed Forces and Canadians and we have seen new and ever-emerging technologies that range from below threshold to open conflict.

Continentally, the rise of strategic competition, changing threats to the continent, the effects of climate change and the growing importance of the Canadian Arctic requires that we strengthen our domestic and continental defences. Canada and the U.S. are working together to modernize the North American Aerospace Defence Command, including strengthening situational awareness; modernizing command and control systems; enhancing the capabilities of infrastructure, particularly in the Arctic; and advancing research, development and innovation.

Also on the continental defence front, the Canadian Armed Forces have spent the last 15 years conducting Operation Caribbe, where we, alongside our U.S. and other partners in the region, have sought to suppress trafficking in international waters. Now we're seeing strategic competitors move into that region. Both Russia and China, using different methods, are working to establish themselves in the region. We saw this in Africa 10 years ago and that same playbook is unfolding before our eyes in our own hemisphere.

With respect to regional and global threats, globally Canada is supporting the existing rules-based international order and can best advance our interests through multilateralism, alliances and coalitions. Operationally, the Canadian Armed Forces seek to address these threats via our deployments in concert with allies.

Of course, Russia's unprovoked aggression against Ukraine is the most blatant and obvious of these threats. We continue to reinforce our deployed forces in Latvia and elsewhere in Europe as part of our NATO commitments. While paused, our training mission in Ukraine—Operation Unifier—is also specifically aimed at reinforcing the Ukrainian armed forces' ability to defend itself against Russian aggression.

While the current conflict in Europe certainly has taken a lot of attention and resources, we must also keep active with the Indo-Pacific region where the future of the rules-based international order is being challenged by Beijing. Thanks to the deployment of two frigates to the Indo-Pacific in 2021, the Canadian Armed Forces has made tangible contributions, alongside like-minded nations, to uphold the rules-based international order. Of note, HMCS Winnipeg participated in multinational exercises with the U.K.-led Queen Elizabeth strike group in the South China Sea, as well as co-operative deployments with two Australian warships through the Spratly Islands.

The Canadian Armed Forces must be prepared to respond to challenges against the long-standing norms in international law that affect the rights of all nations to operate peacefully in international commons, whether on the sea or in the air. Such activities fundamentally undermine the rules-based international order, which has served us so well since the end of the Second World War. That is why we are working closely with our allies and it is why I believe we can agree that there is significant power in working together to promote global peace, stability and prosperity.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Admiral.

Major-General Wright.

[Major-General Michael Wright, Commander Canadian Forces Intelligence Command and Chief of Defence Intelligence, Department of National Defence]

Mr. Chair, and members of Parliament, thank you very much for the invitation this afternoon to speak on global threats from the defence intelligence perspective.

Prior to addressing the topic, I'd like to briefly describe my dual role as commander of Canadian Forces Intelligence Command, or CFINTCOM, and as chief of defence intelligence. As commander of CFINTCOM, I exercise command and control over the members of the Canadian Armed Forces who work in the command, and I serve as a senior military intelligence adviser to the chief of the defence staff. As chief of defence intelligence, I am directly accountable to the deputy minister and CDS for providing oversight and policy direction to the defence intelligence enterprise to ensure its continued effectiveness, responsiveness and accountability.

Defence intelligence leverages a variety of sources to support strategic decision-makers during events such as the current situation in Ukraine, and to support deployed operations such as those in the Middle East, Latvia and everywhere else around the world where the Canadian Forces are deployed. Additionally, our relationships with allies are critical to our success. Defence intelligence activities are enabled, in large part, by collaboration with domestic and international partners.

Now, to address the topic of global threats to Canada and North America, we currently face a broad range of challenges.

Great power rivalry has once again emerged as the central feature of the international strategic environment, with a revisionist and resurgent Russia and a powerful China seeking to reshape the rules-based international order in ways that support their individual national interests and their authoritarian world views. Increasingly, we have witnessed China and Russia enhancing their strategic co-operation in the diplomatic, economic and military spheres. This co-operation is occurring in many regions around the world, including the Arctic.

Beyond China and Russia, we have seen that there is a mutually reinforcing relationship between weak governance in fragile states, violent extremism and irregular migration flows, and the resultant situations are increasingly aggravated by the impacts of climate change. This will exacerbate instability in many regions of the world over the coming years.

At home, extreme weather-related events will become more severe and more frequent, including droughts, floods and fires, putting more pressure on federal resources, including, as the admiral said, the Canadian Armed Forces.

As we have all witnessed over the last two years, the emergence of new pathogens, coupled with the threat of pandemics, could also further exacerbate political, social and economic instabilities.

Cyber-threats are growing, and offensive cyber programs have been used by states to target Canadian assets, including the financial sector, critical infrastructure and democratic institutions via influence activities and propaganda, or in other words, information warfare.

Finally, state and non-state actors are investing in military technologies and weapons systems. Notably, they are increasingly pursuing their agendas using hybrid methods in the “grey zone” that exists just below the threshold of armed conflict, including foreign influence, cyber and espionage operations.

Mr. Chair, this concludes my presentation. Thank you again for the opportunity.

I look forward to questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, General Wright.

The first questioner is Mr. Motz.

It's a six-minute round, but I see that we have about 18 minutes left and four people trying to do six minutes. The math doesn't work. So make it a four-minute round.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, to both witnesses, for your service and for being here today.

Vice-Admiral, CJOC leads most CAF operations in Canada and around the world, and that is no small task, as we know. We're here today to the threat analysis and readiness of the Canadian Armed Forces.

When looking at the threats, I want to begin with the internal or systematic threats you face that are internal, so non-violent threats, but threats that come from perhaps a lack of capacity or a lack of funding or staffing. Put another way, are you provided with the best tools to properly do the job that needs to be done?

[VAdm J.R. Auchterlonie]

Your point was bang on.

As commander of CJOC, I am responsible for the command and control of our operations domestically and internationally. I receive forces from the army, navy and air force, and occasionally the Canadian Special Operations Forces Command. In doing so, I'm able to meet the commitments I have globally and domestically for the operations we're currently assigned to by the Government of Canada.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Okay.

Ultimately, then, whose decision is it, or what is the decision-making process, if you would please enlighten us, on when to deploy Canadian Armed Forces within Canada and around the world? Maybe you could give us a very brief overview of that.

[VAdm J.R. Auchterlonie]

Domestically and internationally are two different processes. Domestically it's quite straightforward. One of the key points I think I want to pass along is that Canadian Armed Forces should be considered a force of last resort in Canada. Our provinces are strong. The union between the federal and provincial levels is quite strong. A lot of provinces have those capabilities to deal with situations generally throughout Canada.

That being said, when issues arise that are beyond the control of particular municipalities or provinces, they would then ask the federal government for support and potentially the Canadian Armed Forces. This is done through a request for assistance from the province to the federal government. That is then coordinated at the federal level through the Minister of Public Safety. Oftentimes, as you've seen in the past two years, specifically during the pandemic, the Canadian Armed Forces has been called upon to respond. We've done that on every occasion.

Internationally, it depends on where we are assigned missions based on the Government of Canada, on our alliances and working with our partners. For example, the majority of our large missions around the globe are actually done through a memorandum to cabinet. We receive authorization and authorities from government to conduct operations globally, with our partners, in various regions.

As I said, domestically it's normally through the request for assistance process through provinces, and internationally it's through the memorandum to cabinet.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you very much for that.

Major-General Wright, I'm looking at what the Canadian Forces national counter-intelligence unit does. It identifies, investigates and counters CAF threats by foreign intelligence services, individuals or groups engaged in terrorism, espionage, sabotage, subversion, or organized criminal activities that impact both DND and CAF. Of these, from your perspective, what are the top two or three that you would identify and/or encounter regularly?

[MGen Michael Wright]

I would say that the top two threats are the two threats I mentioned during my presentation—Russia and China. Both have aggressive foreign intelligence services.

Also, although it is not strictly the Canadian Forces national counter-intelligence unit that is responsible, we are also dealing with issues around ideologically motivated violent extremism within the Canadian Armed Forces. They are part of the group within the Canadian Armed Forces who is working on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Motz.

Mr. Fisher, you have four minutes, please.