National Defence Committee on Feb. 12th, 2024

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

How often do you see that happen?

[MGen Erick Simoneau]

I've seen it happen quite a few times.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Do members know they can ask for that leniency openly?

[MGen Erick Simoneau]

That's part of the system we're in right now. You may have noticed that last week we put online a digitalized form, which is step one of digitalizing the whole system.

We're having a hard time understanding how many grievances there are in the system at any given time, simply because they were paper-based. They were done at every level, and they're very difficult to track. Having a digitalized system will allow us to achieve what you're saying right now.

It's very difficult at this time unless it's flagged to us, but it's changing, and it's changing in the right direction.

[Bill Matthews]

Mr. Chair, if I could, maybe I'll direct my colleague. I didn't give Madam Normandin a great answer to her question on the prioritization of complaints related to sexual harassment.

Do you want to add anything, Mr. Simoneau?

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

That's fine.

[MGen Erick Simoneau]

On sexual misconduct-related grievances, we have prioritized them a hundred per cent, per Madam Arbour's report, and we've dealt with them. There are 21 in the system, of which three have been adjudicated, and 18 are awaiting more information but are at the top of the pile for sure.

Not necessarily for grievances, but affected people—victims—can always opt now to go directly to the CHRC as well, the Canadian Human Rights Commission, without exhausting all the internal processes within the department, which is another positive step, in my opinion.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.

Colleagues, if we run a tight ship—

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, that response was given to Ms. Normandin's question and not mine. I had more, so will you at least give me more time at the end?

[Bill Matthews]

I apologize, Mr. Chair. I shouldn't have done it.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I thought it was germane to both your questions. I thought that's what the point of his—

[Bill Matthews]

I thought so as well, Mr. Chair, but I believe the member may not agree with me, and I apologize.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Okay. We'll give Ms. Mathyssen another minute when she gets her next round.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Fantastic.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

It just shows you complaining works.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Or democracy....

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Yes, democracy.

I always get so much help chairing this committee from so many sources.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

If we run a tight ship, we'll run about five minutes or maybe 10 minutes over. I'm sure Mr. Kelly will hit the five-minute button right on the head.

You have five minutes, Mr. Kelly.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Matthews, I'm going to take you back to the chart contained in the department's report to Parliament on access to information. In response to, I think, Mrs. Gallant's question, you said that you omitted the 2019-20 year because of COVID and you gave us the stats.

You're shaking your head. Why did you omit that year then?

[Bill Matthews]

I gave you the stats for that year. The report covers, I believe, a three-year period, so that year dropped off. That is my recollection, but I can check. If we've omitted something that should be there, we will—

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Well, there's a blank. There's nothing in between. It gives 2018-19, and then it goes to 2021-22 and 2022-23, so it's—

[Bill Matthews]

We'll check and see if we need an update there.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

It doesn't look very open and transparent if you just skip a year. We shouldn't have to ask the question at a parliamentary committee to get the numbers.

Perhaps it was, for some reason, a choice to skip that year in the chart, but the year that you skipped was the one year that you got significantly behind. You said there was a gap of hundreds of ATIPs that were not responded to. Is that correct?

[Bill Matthews]

For the year in question, there were more requests that came in than files closed, so the simple math is that the backlog grew; it didn't shrink.