National Defence Committee on Oct. 27th, 2025

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

The MOU you mentioned earlier—

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

That was with the Province of Ontario.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Have you entered into MOUs with the other provinces as well?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

No. As I mentioned, the offer remains. It's been shopped around. Provinces have been asked for their feedback. That dialogue continues. There have been interdepartmental deputy minister tables, federal-provincial tables and so on. That work continues.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

Has there been discussion on a need for extra funding or resources to achieve these changes, given the extra cases being given to civilian police forces and investigative—

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

It is something that we have raised, something that we have examined internally. It's not something that we've come to ground on. None of the provinces has necessarily come forward in this regard, but it is also important to remember that it is the provincial responsibility to actually administer justice in the country.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Is the federal government considering extra funding for those services for the extra duties?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Not at this point in time.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Okay.

Have you looked at mechanisms used by our allies to administer justice on sexual misconduct?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

My understanding is that we have, yes. There's been widespread analysis of some of our partners and allies on what has worked and what hasn't worked—certainly the United States and, I suspect, Australia, New Zealand and others—but this is a very Canadian approach, derived from three or four foundational reviews, the last of which was conducted by Justice Arbour.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

You mentioned the United States. Was something similar to their model, the NCIS in the United States, considered in the developing of this bill?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I think it was, although I would say that today I'm not sure what the model would be in the United States. There are a lot of changes going on, so we're not sure to what extent that would be helpful in informing our approach.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

There's nothing in Bill C-11 to compel civilian police to communicate with the Canadian Armed Forces. How will you make this happen?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Once a matter is transferred into the hands of a civilian police force, it becomes part of the administration of justice chain. It wouldn't be something that the Canadian Armed Forces would be dialoguing with on a regular basis.

If there's evidence or investigation material, or if information has to be sworn, it would be transferred over to the police force, and then it's over to them and their provincial Crowns.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

The bill says military police cannot investigate; securing evidence is part of investigating. Can you comment on how military police will walk this fine line between securing evidence and not investigating? Would you be open to amendments relating to this in proposed section 70.2?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Do you mean outside of Canada or inside of Canada?

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I mean specifically inside of Canada.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

That's a more technical question that I would much rather leave to the JAG, the judge advocate general, to give you more details.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Is it the same for outside of Canada as well?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Outside of Canada is a different story, and Justice Arbour was very clear about that in terms of how we would proceed.

Until the situation comes to ground, our military police, our internal investigative organization structure, would pursue the matter and bring it back to Canada, and then it would be dealt with, again, through the local court system.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

There have been problems with military officials not providing disclosure to civilian lawyers in a timely fashion in the past. Would you support an amendment to Bill C-11 to prevent this from happening?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I certainly would like to hear more about it, because if that would help make it more robust, we're open to hearing more.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

Military police will not have jurisdiction inside Canada to investigate the crimes listed in Bill C-11 but will retain jurisdiction outside of Canada. Why would that be? Could you explain a little bit?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Well, under international public law rules, we can't easily apply extraterritorial law from Canada, for example, in a situation like the one in Latvia. We have to build a system that respects the fact that we have members of the armed forces living and serving abroad.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

I just have one last quick question, if I may.