National Defence Committee on Oct. 27th, 2025

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Embedding reforms like those in Bill C-11 directly into law sends a clear signal of lasting commitment.

From your perspective as chief of the defence staff, how does that kind of legislation action help strengthen confidence and trust across the forces?

[Gen Jennie Carignan]

I think this is mostly related to ensuring independence of the process. It's ensuring that victims are enabled and that they keep agency over their own process and how they want to go about their own complaint. It's about providing them with an approach that respects the agency they have over their own process and ensuring full independence of the justice process that they have undertaken.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Thank you, General.

I'll now go to Monsieur Savard-Tremblay.

You have two and a half minutes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Since I have only two and a half minutes, I won't repeat my question—

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Actually, Mr. Savard‑Tremblay, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Nevertheless, Mr. Prévost, I won't repeat my question, since you've already heard it. To save time, I'll just let you answer.

[LGen Paul Prévost]

Could you remind me what the question was?

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

My question was on the 60-day time frame and what the department will do to make sure there are no delays.

[LGen Paul Prévost]

I'm not sure whether the judge advocate general can answer that question. The right person to ask would be the provost marshal. What I can say is that we're looking at the steps needed to reduce the transition time.

Mr. Holman, I'll let you answer the question.

[MGen Rob Holman]

The transfer of jurisdiction will come into force 60 days after the bill has received royal assent. A clause in the bill gives another 60 days to finalize the transfer of cases. That means there's a 120-day transition period to make sure victims have all the support they need in the civilian system.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

How will the department make sure that there are no delays or that cases don't fall through the cracks?

[MGen Rob Holman]

It's not in the bill, but as the chief of the defence staff said, civilian police forces and military police communicate weekly and daily to make sure there are no gaps between the two systems.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

You say they communicate every week.

[MGen Rob Holman]

Based on the conversations I've had with military police representatives, yes. The military police on base are in constant communication with the relevant civilian police force outside the base.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

I'll broaden the scope of my question.

Coordinating between the civil, provincial and military justice systems, the armed forces and the department will be quite a challenge. There are a lot of stakeholders.

Does the plan take that into consideration? Did the department think about how things will work? Not only are there legal resources to coordinate, but there are also financial resources to coordinate. Is that part of the plan? Is the plan already done?

[Gen Jennie Carignan]

Police forces already coordinate their efforts. They always discuss who has jurisdiction depending on the case. It could be the RCMP, the municipal police force or the provincial police force.

Since this coordination is already taking place, it's now about waiting. It's something police forces expect to do. This process has been ongoing for months, even years. Once the bill is passed, we'll just move on to the next step.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

I imagine my time is up, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

No, you're good.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

That's right. I forgot I have the floor for five minutes.

I'd like to ask another question.

Can we expect statistics to be released, so we can measure how effective the legislation is? Once the legislative changes have been made, there should be statistics on the number of complaints filed, the number of cases transferred to civilian authorities and the conviction rates, for example. The victims' level of satisfaction could also be measured through surveys. Can we expect to have that kind of information?

[Gen Jennie Carignan]

We can certainly expect that. The chief of professional conduct and culture and the sexual misconduct support and resource centre collect data to track the impact of the changes being made. The data relate to such things as the number of complaints filed and the steps taken up to the court stage. Obviously, there will be a follow-up regarding the outcomes of court proceedings, because as soon as a member of the Canadian Armed Forces is prosecuted, we do an administrative follow-up in relation to their career and future in the armed forces.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

What you're saying is, in the end, we need to make sure no harm comes to the victims once justice has been served. That's what I take away from your last sentence.

[Gen Jennie Carignan]

That's correct.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Given that, I wonder which indicators will allow the department to measure the impacts. The outcomes—

Mr. Chair, I feel as if I'm bothering my colleagues who are talking at the same time I am.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Your time is up, but I'll let you finish the question.