National Defence Committee on April 29th, 2026

[Tim Watchorn, Liberal, Les Pays-d'en-Haut, QC]

That's a great question.

Back home, even though we haven't got a military base, we've also experienced children being relocated from one elementary school to another. Communities are mobilizing against this.

I think it's important to have discussions. Your message will be heard, Ms. Perreault. We'll make sure that these discussions take place.

The military is recruiting heavily these days. They've already met their targets this year for the number of new service members. So it's really important, for Shannon and for the Government of Canada, that the new recruits who will be moving into these 1,100 new housing units are welcomed in your town.

[Sarah Perreault]

Absolutely.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Thank you, Ms. Perreault.

Mr. Savard‑Tremblay, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Villandré and Ms. Perreault, thank you for being with us. Thank you for your presentations.

Mr. Villandré, I'd like to check something with you first. Over a month ago, on March 25, we welcomed the Minister of National Defence and his team, including deputy ministers and members of his inner circle. This was at the beginning of our study. I spoke to them about you. I said that the City of Terrebonne found it strange to have to pay for this when it is a federal government error, a long-standing federal oversight. It's an old issue. I've been hearing my colleagues in the caucus talk about this for a long time. Members of Parliament for Terrebonne have also mentioned it to me. It goes as far back as Mr. Boudrias, who was already talking about it years ago.

Mr. McGuinty was not aware of it. I don't blame him. He can't possibly know the technical details of all these cases. However, the deputy minister, Christiane Fox, said that it was strange that you thought that in the City of Terrebonne, because there were funds available for you. She said she was going to call you to let you know. That was over a month ago.

Did the department officials call you?

[Serge Villandré]

No, we've not had any calls from anyone in the department regarding any subsidies to cover these costs, especially since they have increased. Initially, the estimate was $600,000. Now, we're up to $1.7 million to decontaminate the site due to the presence of unexploded ordnance.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

So you didn't get a call from the deputy minister. It's not because Terrebonne hasn't paid its Videotron bill.

Isn't that right?

[Serge Villandré]

No, we pay our bills on time.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Okay.

So you'd like to get that call. That commitment was made here, on the record, on camera.

[Serge Villandré]

Yes, especially since it's not our responsibility. We just want to ensure that we can develop our region. The construction of the interchange is a key element. It needs to be decontaminated. Since this is federal land, the federal government should normally cover the costs.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

That helps me to segue into my next question. I want to understand something.

Initially, national defence estimated that the work, which will take place this spring, would cost $600,000. Ultimately, the actual bids came in at $3.4 million. We're not even in the same ball park. You had to go outside Quebec to find a contractor willing to do the work for $1.7 million.

How can such a discrepancy be explained? What methodology was used?

[Serge Villandré]

You're right.

We know absolutely nothing about this field. We've never had to decontaminate a site ordnance. We brought in procurement experts from national defence. They're the ones who provided us with the estimates.

Initially, yes, it was around $600,000. Then we contacted the only Quebec company that specializes in this field. They offered to do the work, by mutual agreement, for $3.4 million, which we found far too expensive, given the $600,000 estimate.

As a result, we had to issue a Canada-wide call for tenders. At the beginning of the year, a company offered to do the work for $1.7 million, which is still four or five times more than the initial estimate.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Even though that's less than $3.4 million, it's still a long way from $600,000. We're not in the same ball park at all.

Isn't that right?

[Serge Villandré]

Yes, exactly. These costs are borne by the municipality, under current conditions.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Yes, that's right. There will be work done in the spring.

Are there any other plots of land besides the one in question, where shells need to be removed?

[Serge Villandré]

This site does have development potential. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, we could connect two industrial parks and take the opportunity to build along that axis.

An area has already been developed for a Hydro-Québec station. We could build at least 5,000 housing units there. We know there's a huge need for them. Then, there should also be a connection with surrounding schools and industrial parks. All of this would take up only 3% of this huge area, which would become a protected area in the long term.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

There's a housing crisis, and farmland is often rezoned. We might as well use contaminated land.

They say that this land is contaminated, and you confirm that there are shells there. However, it's less clear whether there are contaminants in the soil.

Can you clarify that?

[Serge Villandré]

It's not clear. For the construction of the interchange, we tested the soil, but because this is a road infrastructure project, the acceptable contamination thresholds are not the same. We don't do the same tests as we would for a school, a business or a residential building, for example. More in-depth studies are certainly needed.

So we conducted some studies to assess the bearing capacity and ensure that there are no hazardous contaminants for people who would pass by there in vehicles or on bicycles, for example.

That said, we definitely need to take this further if we want to ensure that this site remains safe for the people who will be using it.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

So there is uncertainty and a fairly significant impact on the city's development. You can confirm that.

Isn't that right?

[Serge Villandré]

Yes, absolutely.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

The land was transferred in 2015 as low-risk land. Those are the terms that were used.

What technical criteria was that based on?

I know you said you have no expertise in this and you've never done this before, but how can anyone say that this is low-risk land when there are munitions in the ground?

What was that actually based on?

[Serge Villandré]

I don't know how they evaluate sites. We didn't buy all the land, just a tiny part of it to build our interchange, and when we acquired this parcel of land, we were told that the risks were very low. However, I don't know what criteria that opinion and that decision were based on.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

When national defence transferred the land, it committed to decontaminating it.

Is that correct?

[Serge Villandré]

Yes, exactly.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

That's what was said at the time. The department said it was going to do it, but now you have to pay for it.

Is that correct?

[Serge Villandré]

The department said its responsibility was to take the munitions that were removed from the ground and then dispose of them, but it was up to us to get them out of the ground. That's why we awarded a $1.7‑million contract.