National Defence Committee on Oct. 9th, 2025

[P. Whitney Lackenbauer]

Reflecting on what needs to be built in, it is a spirit of innovation.

I disagree with Dr. Rivard Piché: Not all the technological solutions are actually there. If you look at the bill that was presented respecting the golden dome, you see that there were huge allocations of billions of dollars on the U.S. side to actually develop the technology, so let's get back to a culture in Canada of really promoting, taking some risks, digging in on the R and D and S and T side, trialing things and getting back to a culture of experimentation.

When the DEW Line was being built between 1955 and 1958 in a crash program, some of the technological elements were not in place when they were already building infrastructure. They were designing, building and experimenting on the fly.

In the world of competition that we find ourselves in now, I think we need to seize the initiative, as Canadians and as part of this North American partnership, to get back to showcasing that spirit of innovation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Thank you, Mr. Lackenbauer.

Ms. Lapointe, you do have a little extra time. I was trying to give Mr. Tremblay a bit of time.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

I'll ask General Coates to respond.

[Christopher Coates]

I don't think it's a particular single thing.

Building on what Dr. Karako said, we have to understand what it is we're trying to defend, and where and how, and then, in each of those instances, create the right capabilities and the right integration to do that.

In some places, you're going to want to defend against small drones; in others, you want to defend against everything. In some others, maybe ballistic missiles are what you need to be worried about. It's to have a more deliberate approach, and not just look for the one solution that we need.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Dr. Fergusson, would you comment?

[James Fergusson]

If I understand your question correctly, don't try to defend everything at all, particularly in the context of the conversations we've had about cyber.

The important thing for NORAD and the U.S. military and the Canadian military is to ensure their cyber capabilities are defended and protected. They have no responsibility, and should not have any responsibility, for the civilian side of the equation. That's up to companies and up to Public Safety or Homeland Security. Don't add more into this hopper that doesn't belong there.

This has always been the danger of this expansive idea of national security, of trying to absorb everything. Instead, let's recognize what the key threats are, where our priorities have to be, and for defence, cyber, except for themselves, is not a priority, and we should stop talking about that when we talk about defence.

For the rest of it, yes, I agree with you, but that's all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Mr. Savard-Tremblay, do you want one question, and we'll wrap it up?

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

I see that the time is already up, so I'll pass, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

There'll be extra time for the next one.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chair, while we're on this, I would ask that the analyst, in the same vein that he prepared the NORAD regions and air defence identification zones and Canadian NORAD region site maps, also include the one that shows the borders for the Arctic over-the-horizon radar and the polar over-the-horizon radar, as well as a top-down, bird's-eye view of the North Pole to show the satellite and radar availability of our NATO nations that we may have to integrate with.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Before we wrap up, I want to make sure that members received the two budgets that were circulated.

Did you want to discuss them? Do you want to approve them now, or do you want to save it for an in camera meeting? Does anyone have any questions or any apprehension?

All in favour, please signify.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

To the witnesses, both online and here, thank you very much for your comments and your deliberations. They were very thorough. I think all of us appreciate your candour and your concern.

With that, is the committee in agreement to adjourn the meeting?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

The meeting is adjourned.