National Defence Committee on Oct. 21st, 2025

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

Is the money being allocated to you sufficient to get this done?

[Caroline Xavier]

I'll have to get back to you, because we're still doing that assessment.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

How is the use of AI in quantum computing manifesting itself with respect to the severity and length of time an intrusion goes undetected?

[Caroline Xavier]

Every incident is unique, and every incident comes with its own complications. It's hard to answer that question in a general manner. As we highlighted in our national cyber-threat assessment 2025-26, AI is very much an amplifier when it comes to threats. It has very much lowered the bar of entry for threat actors who want to do nefarious things in the cyber domain. That is a certain activity.

The Communications Security Establishment and Canadian Centre for Cyber Security are doing their part to ensure that we're continuing to raise cyber resilience across the country by ensuring we're giving proper advice, and that their sensors are rolled out in the various Government of Canada systems including Crown corporations.

We've seen improvement in that coverage. We're continuing to ensure that people are aware of and are looking for the indicators that compromise.... Whenever we are informed, especially from foreign intelligence, of possible threats to an organization, we notify them.

Last year, over 300 pre-ransomware notifications were given to Canadian institutions because we were better informed and because of what we had in our foreign intelligence collection, including observations from partners around the world. In sharing those indicators that compromise, and by sharing our advice and guidance, we're continuing to improve that resilience in order for people to be better prepared.

It is very possible, however, to the point asked, that artificial intelligence could be used by a threat actor and could go undetected for some time. This is why we promote the importance of defending, closing those doors and windows, and following our top 10 basic hygiene tips, so that you become a harder target to have artificial intelligence used against you from a threat actor.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

How, if at all, do CSE and cyber command collaborate or interact?

[Caroline Xavier]

General Carignan and I are quite proud of the work that we've done in the cyber domain as two organizations. Over a year ago when the CAF cyber command became an official entity, we were already working jointly, as I mentioned earlier, in the foreign cyber-operations space. CSE offered an opportunity to the Canadian Armed Forces to really become well practised and really work towards better understanding how to do active and defensive cyber-operations.

Now that the CAF cyber command has stood up its own entity, we continue to still work collectively and jointly; however, the CAF can now continue do things on its own as it sees fit.

I'm sure General Carignan can answer a bit more on that. We still do joint operations despite the fact that the two entities are unique. Many times members of the CAF cyber command will work under my authorities, or I'll work under General Carignan's authority, as appropriate, in the defence of Canada in the cyberspace. That is something we do all the time.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

Given the inadequacies of our cyber-defence in the AG report, what measures are you saying the government will take that would give you confidence that the direction that is being taken will ameliorate the AG's concerns?

[Caroline Xavier]

I would say that, from the time the AG's report was completed, which was done some time ago, we've already made significant progress in how we're continuing to defend and protect our systems. As I said, we've seen an increase in the adoption of our sensors already in our Government of Canada systems as we work with Shared Services Canada, but in particular with our Crown corporations, we've seen an increase in the use of our sensors.

In addition to that, we learn a lot from every incident, and we're doing a lot more engagement with senior leaders across the Government of Canada so they can better understand what role they have to play when there's a cyber-incident in their own organization. That is part of the advice that we are putting in place.

Finally, we put in place an individual by the name of Sami Khoury, who's our Government of Canada senior official in cybersecurity for that reason, to give support to a department that is maybe going through a cyber-incident, to have an adviser, to whisper in their ears, to give them the advice they need while they're undergoing a cyber-incident, in addition to the support we provide.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Watchorn, you have up to five minutes.

[Tim Watchorn, Liberal, Les Pays-d'en-Haut, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Sheehy, I'd like to bring you into the conversation, since you didn't get a chance to answer a lot of questions.

The government has announced the creation of the Defence Investment Agency. It's supposed to improve the military procurement process across the board, in terms of cost as well as timelines.

How do you see that? How do you think that can improve the entire defence procurement process?

[Heather Sheehy]

Mr. Chair, I'm excited about the Defence Investment Agency. I have only recently come to DND; I've been at DND about three weeks now. We have a very sophisticated project management process in place in the government, but it can be long, and we know that. We've seen that on many different procurements.

I currently work with PSPC and other providers. My team also works with Defence Construction Canada and Shared Services Canada to put these procurements in place. Currently, we're working with PSPC. It's a great collaboration, but I'm looking forward to working with the Defence Investment Agency as well, because I think their mandate to reduce red tape and to look at how we utilize those investments for Canada in a way that makes the best sense for Canada is very exciting.

We are also doing work at DND in terms of looking at our processes. I said that we have a very sophisticated project management system. We need to have that in order to be compliant with Treasury Board policies, but we also need to look at ways that we can ensure that procurements can be done in an accelerated fashion. We are doing that work as well.

I'm pretty excited about the Defence Investment Agency. I think the fact that we see “investment” in the name suggests that the government is really committed to looking at how we use our procurements to achieve both things in getting the equipment we need for the Canadian Armed Forces and also the rest of Canada.

[Tim Watchorn, Liberal, Les Pays-d'en-Haut, QC]

I'm going to pick up on that by asking you a question about what you just said. The other witnesses can answer as well.

What are the first projects that the agency should take on to ensure that we receive the equipment we need as soon as possible and at a lower cost?

[Heather Sheehy]

I think they may have some views on this as well.

As I already explained, I work with a number of agencies already, and I need to continue to work with the agencies as the new investment agency gets up and running. As they start to bring on board some of those procurements, I will work with them. In the meantime, I will continue to work with my other clients in order to get this done.

My main preoccupation, I'll be quite honest, is not to decelerate. I can't have a blip. I need to continue to ensure that procurements are going as quickly and as reasonably as possible, while still ensuring value for money for Canadians. That is my mandate. I think that is what the deputy and associate have asked me to do in coming into this position.

[Natasha Kim]

The only thing I would add is that the defence industrial strategy, which the chief of the defence staff talked about, will help us in this case, because there will be an established plan, clear objectives and a willingness to do things differently, particularly in procurement.

[Tim Watchorn, Liberal, Les Pays-d'en-Haut, QC]

In other words, you see the creation of the agency as a positive thing for military procurement.

Commissioner Pelletier, I would also like to include you in the discussion, since we've neglected you somewhat.

In our last few meetings, we've had witnesses come to talk to us about the integration of the Canadian Coast Guard with the Royal Canadian Navy, and every single one of them said it was a good thing.

I would like to hear your views and those of your colleagues on this issue. How do you see the future of the Canadian Coast Guard in terms of its integration with the Royal Canadian Navy?

[Mario Pelletier]

I would like to clarify that the idea isn't to integrate the Canadian Coast Guard with the Royal Canadian Navy, but rather with the Department of National Defence.

The feedback I've received from employees has been extremely positive. As I often say, most Canadian citizens thought we were already part of the national defence family. It's like that in other countries. For some employees, this change came as a surprise. However, I haven't received any negative comments, quite the contrary. We look forward to seeing how this transformation will go and how we can be an added value for the security of the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Thank you very much, Commissioner.

I'm sensitive to time. I have only a few minutes left.

Mr. Bezan, you have a few minutes.

If I can fit in a few more, then we will, but I do have a few closing remarks.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Okay. Thanks.

Thanks to all of the witnesses for being here and for what you're doing in defending Canada. All of you lead great organizations and you're doing a great service to all of us.

Especially, General Carignan, please pass on our best wishes and gratitude to every member of the Canadian Armed Forces, as well as the Coast Guard, who we'll get to see much more often.

I'm sure, Commissioner Pelletier, that we'll see you here shortly in our study on the Canadian Coast Guard.

Ms. Kim, you mentioned that 5,000 rounds of the 155-millimetre shells for the howitzers is the goal. Is that the current production already or is it still the goal to get to 5,000?

[Natasha Kim]

Mr. Chair, I understand that is the actual production capacity right now for the—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

We did hit the goal, but still, it's 5,000 a month, and in Ukraine they're burning through about 4,500 to 5,000 shells a day now. We still need to ramp up production even more. Hopefully, we are working towards that.

[Natasha Kim]

I would agree with you.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

The AG reports today weren't great for National Defence. We talked about housing, and she identified a shortage of up to 7,200 residential housing units currently. The plan for National Defence is to build somewhere around 38 housing units over the next 20 years, and that plan is still unbudgeted.

How do we fix this? We have people coming in who want to join the Canadian Armed Forces. How do we retain them when they have to live rough or go into marketplaces like Victoria, Toronto or Halifax that are super expensive? If we're going to be able to hang onto them, this has to be affordable, and they have to have proper living conditions. The stock that's there, as she pointed out as well, is in pretty rough shape.

[Natasha Kim]

Mr. Chair, there are really two key principles that guide us here: accessibility and affordability of housing for members. We have different tools that come into play for that.

Just to correct the numbers that we're looking at, we're looking at over 800 new units over the next five years in terms of RHUs. We're also revitalizing our barracks and quarters as well.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

That's still, in five years, a far cry from the 7,200 we need. Hopefully, we're going to get to full strength and go above full strength, and that means we have to do better.

Also, in the AG report and what she came out with on recruitment, one thing I found very disturbing was that when she looked at a number of the critical occupations, only 19% of them are going to be filled within the next four years. The other 81% will take 10 or 25-plus years to be filled or may never be filled.

How do we go out and fight when we're missing key occupations within the Canadian Armed Forces? That might include pilots, technicians, weapons specialists, mechanics or combat engineers. These are the people we need and don't have, and it doesn't sound like we're going to be able to get them in the next decade.

[Gen. Jennie Carignan]

Those estimates were based on the path we were on, but as the report was getting ready, we had already modified our posture, which greatly changed the dynamics of recruiting. We're going to keep building on that momentum. Currently, we have five stress trades where we are focusing our efforts. We are currently developing a proof of concept, where we have hired headhunters to go after all of these trades. We are introducing a recruiting allowance for those trades. We have authorities for enhanced advertising. We are also fast-tracking their applications.