National Defence Committee on Oct. 21st, 2025

[Scott Anderson, Conservative, Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC]

General Carignan, what do you think is the area we should be concentrating on the most? What is the most crucial right now in militarization?

[Gen. Jennie Carignan]

From a military perspective, this is based on our current and previous defence policies, so we are basing our priorities on the demands from “Our North, Strong and Free” and “Strong, Secure, Engaged”. The priority is the defence of Canada and the Arctic, so we are investing in terms of both capabilities and planning and programming to secure Canada, which is why the minister has been talking about integrated air missile defence, multidomain awareness and, again, equipping ourselves to conduct those types of operations.

We have to understand that over the past 35 years post-Cold War, the Canadian Armed Forces have been asked for fundamentally different types of missions, so the types of missions we are required to do now and will be required to do in the future are fundamentally different, hence the requirement for those transformations that are currently ongoing.

[Scott Anderson, Conservative, Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC]

That's a good point, that we are now preparing for symmetrical warfare rather than asymmetrical warfare. That's why my questions are of this nature.

Where's the implementation plan? Do we have a command structure and coordination with DFO? Do you know when it's going to be tabled at all?

[Natasha Kim]

I'm happy to start, Mr. Chair, and the commissioner may want to weigh in.

In terms of the integration of the Canadian Coast Guard into Defence, there was an order in council, as someone mentioned earlier. Between ourselves and DFO, we are negotiating a memorandum with the understanding that we'll lay out the transition plan for that integration over time. It will be a very orderly approach, but the Coast Guard is formally part of Defence.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Thank you, Mr. Anderson. Your time is up.

I am going to pass it over to Sherry Romanado for up to six minutes.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for joining us today.

I'll be sharing my time with my colleague, Mr. Greaves, who is attending the meeting by video conference.

I'll start by turning to General Carignan.

General Carignan, I would like you to talk about the significant change observed in the corporate culture over the past two years. This change is the result of all our efforts, particularly with regard to harassment. I'm also thinking of all the cases where we successfully implemented the recommendations in Justice Arbour's report.

Could you share your thoughts on this topic?

[Gen. Jennie Carignan]

It would take me more than six minutes to talk about this.

I should first point out that all forms of misconduct in organizations often stem from a culture that allows these types of behaviours. These behaviours are completely unacceptable. However, over time, they can become normalized.

When we addressed the issue, we focused on changing the corporate culture in order to optimize our teams' performance in particularly difficult and hostile situations. The whole purpose was to ensure that we had strong teams.

We've implemented multidisciplinary mechanisms. Implementing recommendations alone won't help us get the job done. It takes a combination of various things.

In terms of implementing recommendations, we prioritized four reports in particular, for a total of 194 recommendations. Of these 194 recommendations, we've now addressed 114. By December 2025, we'll have almost finished our work based on the recommendations in Ms. Arbour's report. A tremendous amount of work has been done on this front. We're continuing our work on the remaining recommendations.

From a broader perspective, we've implemented many reforms in basic training and leadership development. For example, we've introduced character‑based leadership. We've also implemented a probationary period. We've changed our methods for selecting staff for command positions.

We've also made sure to include a variety of work experiences within our teams to encourage a flexible approach to tackling complex issues. Our teams often face unexpected and complex issues during their operations in Canada or abroad. The recommended way to tackle more complex issues is to have diverse teams.

We also improved our grievance and complaints system. In order to build stronger teams, we need to ensure that complaints are addressed. By properly managing complaints within teams, we create a stronger corporate culture and stronger teams, where people maintain a relationship of trust.

Lastly, we created a leadership support team that works with a number of units and formations in Canada and abroad to address systemic issues within certain teams.

I could keep talking about this. In short, we've implemented many initiatives and we're seeing the results. Changes are happening and people are comfortable with the new procedures.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you.

I'll give the rest of my time to Mr. Greaves.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members, for having me here today.

Thank you to our witnesses for joining us.

It's a pleasure to be here.

My question is for General Carignan.

Thank you, General, for taking the time to be here.

Two weeks ago, I attended the Montreal climate security summit, where the Minister of National Defence provided the keynote remarks in speaking to the multi-faceted relationship between climate change and climate change impacts and the Canadian Armed Forces and Canadian security and defence issues.

In his remarks, he was very clear about what some of those connections are, but I wonder if, from perhaps a more operational level, you might speak to the way climate change impacts are affecting the infrastructure and operational readiness of the Canadian Armed Forces in different parts of the country.

[Gen. Jennie Carignan]

I would qualify climate change as an accelerator to the various threats we are facing. I think Mr. Anderson was talking a bit earlier about hybrid threats. What we could use as an example is climate creating an acceleration of various threats coming together, especially when we're speaking about the Arctic.

As the Arctic becomes more accessible due to climate change, the more humans you have around and the more diverse the threat is going to be; the military is one of them. We need to think about criminal dual-use research being conducted, search and rescue, and so on. I think we could also say that the Coast Guard's joining us in Defence is actually a way of joining our strengths together to face those converging and hybrid threats in a better fashion, as we have different capabilities and we can join our forces to address that.

Climate change is also affecting our rate of involvement in domestic operations in Canada. They have doubled from what we have seen over the years. It's creating a huge demand on your Canadian Armed Forces to be responding. As we speak, we are still involved in Nova Scotia in supporting their efforts in fighting the forest fires there at this time of year, which is unheard of.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Thank you.

I'm going to pass it over to Mr. Savard-Tremblay.

You have six minutes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to put my question to General Carignan, but anyone who wants to respond should feel free to do so.

We know that Canada has significant shortcomings in terms of air defence, including missile defence, anti‑drone defence and anti‑helicopter defence. It also lacks portable anti‑aircraft weapons and combat drones. In addition, the tank armaments are completely outdated. We could provide many examples of this kind.

Many plans are coming out, but so far, no comprehensive plan has been released. You may indeed have this type of plan within the forces. However, we haven't seen any comprehensive plan with a clear time frame stating, for example, that the modernization of all equipment is set for a specific year.

Does this type of plan exist, even just for you, within the forces?

[Gen. Jennie Carignan]

Yes. We have a clear understanding of the needs here for the defence of Canada and for our presence on NATO's eastern flank in Latvia. Clear requirements for air defence systems have been identified.

Our troops in Latvia are currently equipped with short‑range air defence systems. We have plans to implement other systems that must also provide medium‑range and long‑range coverage as we strengthen our military capabilities. The systems operators must also be suitably prepared. All these initiatives to build our defence systems are under way and are scheduled for completion in the coming years.

With regard to drones, we're currently using anti‑drone systems for our bases here in Canada, but also in Latvia. We're actively involved in NATO's Allied Command Transformation, which ensures that lessons learned in Ukraine are applied here in Canada.

Our services are also acquiring drones. The army, the Royal Canadian Navy, the special forces and the air force have drones with various capabilities adapted to their respective fields.

All this is certainly under way.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Is it possible, by any chance, to submit a document in writing to the committee so that we have a bit of an idea of what's going on, what's in the works, what's being planned?

[Gen. Jennie Carignan]

Yes, certainly.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Carignan.

I think that's my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

No.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Oh, I thought I only had two and a half minutes. I didn't realize that this was a new round of questions and that I had five minutes. Great.

Then let's move on. Why stop when we're starting to have fun?

Let's get back to serious matters, as I want to address a much more tragic subject, namely, the risk of conflict in Taiwan. We know that the risk is high. We know that it could happen in the short term. China has indicated certain dates, certain years, when it could launch a possible attack. The chances of Canada being drawn into an armed war, a military war, aren't zero. This is something that is real. I'm convinced that you're also seeing this and that you're preparing for it in some way.

Do we know when the Canadian Armed Forces will be fully operational to deal with such a high-intensity conflict?

[Gen. Jennie Carignan]

It's very clear that we're always preparing to fight. That's what the military always does. We make sure that we maintain our skills and ability to fight within the constraints we're given.

No one is in a position to predict exactly when such a conflict might occur. However, here in Canada, we conduct deterrence activities with many of our allies in the Indo-Pacific, to counterbalance the forces at play in that large region of the world. We are working with our many allies in the region, conducting maritime co-operation exercises and focusing on capacity development. Everyone has different needs, whether in terms of cyber-defence, second language or peace operations. We respond to our partners in the region to do those kinds of things.

What we're looking to do in the Indo-Pacific region is to create a deterrent effect. If we are successful in doing that, then we will balance the forces, and there will be less risk of us becoming involved in an armed conflict.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

I imagine there's a need—

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Monsieur Savard-Tremblay, now the time is up.

Mr. Kibble, you have five minutes.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

General, thank you for your service. I appreciate that you're in a very demanding and challenging job, and it's reflective of your excellence to become chief of the defence staff.

The minister stated that recruitment was up 50% last year. Could you clarify that? Is that 50% walking through the door of a recruiting centre or 50% walking through the door at basic training?

[Gen. Jennie Carignan]

I think the 50% is where we are in a year. From year to year, we like to compare the trends to see how we are doing compared with how we did last year.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I appreciate that, but is that people applying, or is that people who are actually being recruited and arriving at basic training? There's a difference between those two numbers. Is that 50% referring to that?

[Gen. Jennie Carignan]

Yes, there is. There are thousands of people showing interest on a monthly basis, but they don't necessarily all come back with a firm offer.