National Defence Committee on Oct. 21st, 2025

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

The answer is yes.

The defence industrial strategy, which I hope will be released within a few months, will show that Canada is making foundational decisions that reflect its desire to support economic growth and the expansion of our defence sector.

For example, we saw that IMT Precision can now manufacture 5,000 shells a month, which is 2,000 more shells a month than it was producing in December 2023.

In addition, under our defence policy, the department had already planned to invest $9.5 billion over 20 years in a strategic supply of ammunition.

We have the plan. Now it's about putting it into action, as you said.

[Tim Watchorn, Liberal, Les Pays-d'en-Haut, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Monsieur Savard-Tremblay, you have six minutes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Minister.

Thank you to all the national defence officials for being with us today.

Minister, your appearance today coincides with the release of the Auditor General's reports, so you must be expecting us to ask you a few questions about that.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Be nice.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

I'm always nice. I'm going to read a few excerpts, and you can respond.

In the report entitled “Housing Canadian Armed Forces Members”, it says that “National Defence did not manage living accommodations in a manner that would meet its operational needs and be responsive to the needs” of military members and their families and that it “did not have reliable data” about its furnished quarters. In 2019, the department estimated that it needed an additional 5,200 to 7,200 housing units, but its own plan to build new housing spaces was short 3,800 units. Furthermore, the CAF did not even know which bases new recruits would be sent to, which shows that plans to build housing did not even take into account actual needs by location.

I realize that you haven't been in the job that long, Minister, only a few months, but I'm still going to ask you this question.

We know that efforts will focus on increasing recruitment. We also know that the average age of the quarters buildings is 60 years, so maintenance, potable water and waste water treatment are all issues.

In light of all that, which projects have you budgeted for in 2025-26, when it comes to repairing and building housing units?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Good question.

I'm happy to see that the Auditor General looked into this issue and made recommendations.

For some time now, we've been working to improve the situation. The current system has been analyzed. We may have more information now than we did during the period reviewed by the Auditor General.

This year, for example, I went to Edmonton, where 36 new homes are being built for $20 million. Construction is almost complete. In Borden, I visited one of the 300 new homes under construction. Across Canada, 824 other homes are under construction or being purchased in places such as Esquimalt, Borden, Edmonton, Gagetown, Halifax, Kingston, Petawawa, Trenton and Valcartier. So—

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

So there are some in Quebec too.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Of course. There are also some in Quebec.

There's a great deal of work to do. We're also keeping a close eye on some newer processes, such as the purchase of housing. This is new territory. Perhaps we could also hire a major contractor to carry out renovations across Canada, instead of always using a local contractor.

Everything is on the table. The money is ready for investment. We now need to focus on implementation, and that's exactly what we're doing.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

You're saying that the money is available, but are the resources sufficient?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I learned that the issues often arise at the local level. It isn't always easy to find contractors; engineers; heating, ventilation and air conditioning experts; or experts in design or concrete, for example. This often leads to delays, depending on the locations. We're working more and more strategically with these suppliers.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Let's talk about the other report of the Auditor General concerning National Defence, which was one of the reports tabled this morning. This report focuses on recruitment in the Canadian Armed Forces.

The report states that “the Canadian Armed Forces did not recruit and train enough people to meet its requirements.” It refers to a shortfall of 6,000 regular force members and over 6,000 primary reserve members, compared to the authorized staffing level of 71,500 regular force members and 30,000 reservists. Of the people who applied, only “1 out of 13 were recruited.” Most of these people “abandoned their applications during the recruitment process.”

We're ultimately learning that the federal government is spending billions of dollars on vessels and aircraft, but that we don't have the staff to operate them.

First, what does this mean? Second, do you think that the requested budgets are enough to provide the workforce needed to make up for the shortfall?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Before asking General Carignan to help me answer this question, I must say that the announcement of better pay and benefits was a determining factor. It had a major impact on the number of people applying and getting accepted. As I said, we saw a 55% increase over the past year.

General Carignan, can you share your thoughts on the recruitment issue?

[General Jennie Carignan, Chief of the Defence Staff, Canadian Armed Forces, Department of National Defence]

Good afternoon, everyone.

Obviously, we accept the observations and recommendations of the Office of the Auditor General. They play a vital role in our ongoing efforts to improve our recruitment system.

You should know that, during the preparation of this report, we were already transforming our processes. We also made new investments. We computerized the processes to a certain extent. We've made many changes over the past year. As a result, for the fiscal year ending in March, we surpassed our target for the first time in 10 years by recruiting 200 more people than planned. The transformations really seem to be bringing in the necessary staff.

This year, we've achieved good results in terms of retention. We finished the year with 2,000 more people than we had at the beginning. This means that we're expanding. These results certainly come down to new investments and better pay and benefits, for example. We met 58% of our target by the mid‑point of the fiscal year, meaning the end of September. This is despite the fact that we have a higher recruitment target this year. Last year, our target was 6,500 people. This year, our target for the regular force is 7,000 people. We're on track to meet our recruitment target, despite the fact that it's even more ambitious.

In addition, we've made improvements to everything that comes after recruitment, such as training. We made some initial changes last year. This year, we'll make sure to have everything in place to train all new members of the Canadian Armed Forces.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Thank you, General.

Folks, we have a member of our legislature with her hand up. I want to provide unanimous consent to allow someone who's not part of the membership to ask a question.

Do we have unanimous consent?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

I'm sorry, Ms. Idlout. We don't have consent for interaction. We appreciate your being on Zoom to witness the proceedings.

Ms. Gallant, you have up to five minutes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In response to a critical shortage of pilots and to prevent them from being poached by commercial airlines, pilots were offered increases based on years of experience. However, now we have lower ranks making more money than their superiors.

How are you going to ameliorate this discrepancy?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

That's an excellent question, and a difficult one.

I think we all recognize that the Canadian Armed Forces have been having some difficulty for some time recruiting, training and keeping pilots. This is not unknown to armed forces around the world, with commercial contracts being so attractive.

I have confidence in the decisions that were made by the Royal Canadian Air Force operational experts, who brought in a series of new packages to—

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

Okay. There's no solution at the moment, but you're going to think about it.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Yes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

Okay.

In parallel with the delayed pay increase slated for next month, a majority of recipients who receive the Canadian Forces housing differential are expected to see a decrease in their entitlement. Given that we have a huge cost of living crisis, why was the decision made to give our troops a cut in the housing differential, given the pay raises?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I'm going to ask the operational expert, if you don't mind.

General, do you mind?

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

Actually, we're going to have the CDS later, so we can ask her that later.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

If you wouldn't mind, I would kindly ask you to defer the details to the general afterwards.