National Defence Committee on Oct. 21st, 2025

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

All right.

Recruiters for 50 Squadron, for example, used to do in-person outreach. Everything has gone online now. Applicants cannot even confirm whether or not their submissions were received. Why is there no follow-up for the thousands of people who go online, provide their applications and then don't hear from you or anyone for six months at a time or even longer?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Again, that's an excellent question. By moving to an app-based system, we've obviously driven up significantly the number of applications from paper copy. How we now respond to those folks who press “send” with incomplete applications, for example, is something that we're examining. We're examining whether we want to go back and use that baseline of applicants to reapproach them or to return to them on it: Did you make a mistake? Did you forget to send all the information? Would you like to continue with the application?

We're examining this internally to make sure we don't let good quality folks slip through the cracks. That's a very perceptive question that we're trying to address internally as we beef up the whole recruitment process. As you know, we brought in the app-based process. We brought in many changes to the medical requirements for that application process. It seems to be having a positive effect, as the general indicated a second ago.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

The government promised that the F-35 review would be completed by the end of this summer. Why have you not released it yet?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Because it's not complete, because the F-35 review is still under way and because we're going to take the time we need to get this right. It is a very complicated issue for Canada, and that's exactly where we're at. We're going to take the time we need to get it done, and that's what we're doing.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

When do you expect it to be released to the public?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

It's difficult for me to answer that question. It's under way. It's obviously primarily conducted by the department and by the CAF, but it has, of course, a bearing on the Prime Minister and the Privy Council Office. Those things are combining to take the time this whole process needs.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

A previous witness, Mr. Richard Shimooka of the Macdonald-Laurier Institute, testified that the F-35 procurement is being used as a “bargaining chip” in your government's trade negotiations with the United States. How can you justify putting that expense against our national security?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that characterization. I am in constant touch with the Pentagon. I was down to see Secretary Hegseth two weeks ago and saw him again last week at the NATO meeting. The level to which we are working in co-operation with the United States on security, intelligence and defence is unshaken, in my view. So I think this is a bit of a mischaracterization.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

We're short of pilots to begin with, which you talked about earlier. What's the interoperability of having two different fighter jets in the Royal Canadian Air Force? How would they perform together effectively, given that most of our allies will be flying F-35s?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

A total of 21 countries in the world will be flying F-35s and so far none other. Many jurisdictions in the world have dual fleets. That includes Australia and the United States. The question of dual fleets is not one that I'm seized with at this stage. I'm waiting for the results of the review being conducted. We'll have more to say about that.

The question of interoperability is a very important one, particularly as it deals with IAMD and NORAD responsibilities.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Algonquin—Renfrew—Pembroke, ON]

It's interoperable within our own military. An F-35 pilot doesn't necessarily know how to fly a Gripen. That has not been solved yet.

How much is your government estimating to lose if you axe the rest of the F-35 order?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I can't answer that question, at present. My understanding is that the terms of that agreement are fixed but also negotiable. I don't know if that is something that is even being taken into account right now in the assessment that's going on. I think the technical assessment that's going on with the F-35s is primarily a technical assessment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Thank you.

I will now move over to Ms. Lapointe.

You have five minutes.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for being here today.

Minister, my first question relates to NATO defence spending targets.

NATO allies often look at Canada as a trusted and steady partner. How does this year's increased defence spending enhance our interoperability and leadership within NATO operations, particularly in areas such as cyber-defence, logistics and Arctic surveillance?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

It's had a profound effect. This commitment, along with the realization around the world that we're stepping up, joining the ranks of our colleagues in NATO and have co-negotiated the 5% target for 2035, has had a profound effect on Canada's credibility and ability to deliver. I think that's a very positive thing for us as we re-engage domestically, continentally and internationally. Those three are somewhat different. Certainly, the NORAD modernization plans announced some years ago—$38 billion, if I recall—will have a profound effect on our ability to defend our airspace here, continentally. These things coincide. I remind my NATO colleagues regularly that Canada has that special continental responsibility. Many of them don't.

Nowhere is that more important than in the context of the Arctic, where Canada is being asked, primarily by the United States and other NATO countries, to take on a greater share of the responsibility when it comes to security and sovereignty in the Arctic. A lot of the investments that are forthcoming will be addressing that question: forward operating location expansion or NOSHs, as they're called, the possibility of deep-sea ports, the question of electrification of the north and the question of dual- and multi-use expanding landing strips. All of this is under consideration. All of this is being planned. It has been a major, significant announcement to the world that Canada is serious about rearming, reinvesting and rebooting its armed forces after.... Frankly, I think it's fair to say that governments of all stripes for the last 30 or 40 years have been a bit neglectful.

I think right now is the time. I hope members at this table agree that what we're doing now is the right thing at the right time.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

I think our partners agree.

Minister, you talked about NORAD modernization.

The budget makes significant investments in NORAD modernization. Can you elaborate on how these new funds are being directed? How do they reinforce Canada's role in terms of continental defence?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

First, these are big numbers and a bit astonishing for Canadians, I'm sure. This is the cost of doing business today in the world when it comes to advanced technology and investments.

We're investing $38.6 billion over 20 years to modernize Canada's NORAD capabilities. For example, we're working with Australia now on an Arctic over-the-horizon radar system. This is a profoundly important system. We will know in Canada—and our American neighbours will know—what may be coming at us from over the Arctic, whether it's the Canadian Arctic or Alaska. We have two sites in southern Ontario that are expected to be operational by 2029. National Defence is also working on many issues with indigenous, territorial and provincial partners.

The question of integrated air and missile defence, IAMD, is one that I'm pursuing with the Pentagon. I'm working with the secretary of defence now. The Prime Minister announced some months ago that, after 20 years of a bit of a chill on discussions with the United States on this question, it is important for us to have those conversations. We are having those conversations to see where this comes to ground and how we come to ground. We also, as I mentioned, have these forward operating locations in Inuvik, Yellowknife and Iqaluit, and a deployed operating base in Goose Bay.

All of these efforts are going to support NORAD operations, give us new capabilities and improve our readiness in the north. This is what people are expecting of us as we assert our security in and sovereignty over the Arctic.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

The Canada-U.S. defence relationship is one of the closest in the world.

How do the new defence investments, particularly those tied to NORAD modernization and strategic capability development, strengthen our shared security with the U.S., while also creating opportunities for Canadian companies, Canadian workers and our regions to participate in that work?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

It's a big question and an important question.

The first thing I would say is if we consider the relationship in security, defence and intelligence with the United States as a home we built on both sides of the border, and there are 40 or 50 rows of cinder blocks on the foundation, the 30 bottom rows of those cinder blocks remain absolutely untouched. There has been no frost heaving, no leaking, no heaving or shifting. That relationship is fundamentally strong and continues.

Remember that we have the only binational command in the world: NORAD is the only binational command in the world. It's a great privilege to be able to work with our American neighbours. Canada is going to continue to manage that relationship very carefully. There are some very big modernization investments going on in surveillance systems; threat identification; response speeds; ability to deter and defeat aerospace threats; ensuring that CAF can deploy and sustain a strong military presence across the country, including in the north; future-proofing NORAD's ability to defend North America through investments in science and technology; the over-the-horizon radar system, which I mentioned earlier, the first tranche of which is about $6.5 billion. The list is long.

All of this will allow for Canada to dig down and t build a defence industrial base which is ready for takeoff and for growth. We have 600 companies now in this space. Personally, I'd love to see that doubled. That's my personal ambition, if we can get there, or at least taking on companies that are significant players and doubling their books of business. This is also why we went to the European Union and signed on to the SAFE agreement, which is a $1.25-trillion marketplace for defence over the next decade.

There's a lot of opportunity for Canadian businesses here, a lot of job creation. I think we all know that, and we're very excited by it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Thank you.

Monsieur Savard-Tremblay, you have two and a half minutes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let's talk about languages, since they also have a major impact on recruitment and retention.

We know that a number of occupations are practised exclusively in English. People may claim that these positions are bilingual, but in reality, English prevails. For example, there are no French‑speaking vessels, and a number of occupations and specializations, particularly within the special forces and the Canadian Armed Forces cyber-command, are practised exclusively in English. Even in fields such as infantry, where people take essential career advancement courses, it's impossible to receive training solely in French. I'm thinking in particular of the course provided at the Royal Military College Saint‑Jean to become a warrant officer.

There isn't any support for indigenous languages either. For example, the Canadian Rangers are forced to use English instead of their first languages, such as Inuktitut.

We see these cases. I think that they affect retention.

Can we expect strong and concrete measures in this area? For example, could we see a shift to French in all military occupations and courses, or more courses and services provided in indigenous languages? In this area, does the plan include anything with a timeline or schedule?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Good questions, Mr. Savard‑Tremblay.

I haven't had time to carefully review this issue yet. However, I recently spoke with an official from a French‑speaking European NATO member country. This official also asked me, as you did, about our approach to this issue in Canada. It isn't easy for these people, because a great deal of information and training is in English. A large amount of equipment is also manufactured in Germany, Canada or the United States, for example. This equipment comes with English manuals, since English is the international language.

In short, it's an important issue. I'll look into it at the office. I can give you more information later.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

You can also contact the committee if you have any new information on this matter. We'll certainly take a look at it.

General Carignan, I would like to come back to the recruitment and retention shortfalls. You said that you're getting closer and closer to your targets, but what about the target of 100,000 military members? When do you think that you'll reach it?

[Gen. Jennie Carignan]

The first phase involves a return to full staffing levels for the regular force, meaning 71,500 military members. We expect to achieve this goal in April 2029, which is much earlier than the initial target of 2032.

Additional investments certainly help us to step up our recruitment activities, such as running advertising campaigns to attract recruits or using headhunters to address shortages in certain occupations. We now have many tools to find the necessary people. This is the first phase for the regular force.

We then plan to fill 14,000 positions using the new capabilities that we're creating.

We'll be working on all these fronts in the coming years in order to build the necessary capabilities and recruit the staff required for the new platforms being integrated into the Canadian Armed Forces.

[The Chair, Liberal, Charles Sousa]

Thank you, General.

I understand that we are now going to Mr. Kibble. I think you may be splitting with Mr. Anderson.

You have, combined, up to five minutes.