Evidence of meeting #16 for Natural Resources in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cullen.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Would you like to make a motion to that regard? The situation is that Mr. Harris is previously committed and has indicated to the chair that he will be unable to join the committee. If the committee votes to go to Fort McMurray, the committee will go to Fort McMurray without him.
Mr. Cullen.
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
If Mr. Harris can't attend, I wonder if the committee would agree that we could have the other NDP member, Mr. Bevington, come in lieu of him. On the other point,
We discussed this matter today as well, Ms. DeBellefeuille.
I took the opportunity to speak again to our whip and I think the position of our whip is that we will send no more members than the members on the government side. But apart from that, I don't think our whip is terribly concerned. I gather that in terms of the process, we'll go from here to Liaison Committee and then to the House leaders. I've flagged it for our House leader, but the feedback I'm getting indicates that they're not too excited, as long as the numbers are going to be about the same on the government side and the official opposition side.
3:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Would anyone else like to speak to that? You did raise a point, Mr. Cullen, with regard to Mr. Bevington, I presume.
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
Yes, would that require a formal motion or just an agreement by the committee?
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
I think we would probably be best covered from a payment point of view to make it a motion. I don't have any objection to that, if someone would like to make a motion.
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
I so move. We're making our own travel points so we're really talking about the hotel.
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Fine, and we're not having any votes along the way, so I don't have any objection to that.
Mr. Allen, you're seconding that motion?
Okay, we have a motion that essentially Mr. Bevington will travel to Fort McMurray, ostensibly in the place of Mr. Harris.
(Motion agreed to)
Fine, it's unanimous.
Welcome to Fort McMurray, Mr. Bevington.
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
We haven't approved the budget yet. That was a sidebar motion.
We still have a motion on the floor to approve the budget. I think maybe we could defer it for a few minutes while the clerk checks with logistics to see whether or not a helicopter or two could be fitted into the plans. That may take a few minutes. If it's all right with the committee, perhaps we could defer this motion for a few minutes and go to the next one while we figure that out. Is that agreeable to everyone?
3:40 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
The next item on the agenda is the committee budget overall, and I understand it's being distributed as I speak. While it's being distributed, perhaps we could get a general overview from the clerk as to how it was put together.
3:40 p.m.
The Clerk
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Essentially, this budget is for the study of the oil sands and will allow us to cover the costs of witnesses, because I anticipated that we'd be hearing a lot of witnesses from western Canada. As you'll see, I budgeted for ten witnesses from Calgary and Edmonton and four from unspecified locations. That doesn't tie us to inviting the witnesses from those particular areas; it simply allows us to have a budget for this particular study, so when witnesses make requests to be reimbursed we don't have to go into the operating budget of the committee. I made it so that we're still under the $40,000 ceiling in order that the chair would not have to appear before liaison, because that's under the mandate; the committee is allowed to approve a budget up to $40,000. If we exceed that budget in this study, the chair will have to go and defend however much more we need before liaison, but for the time being this would cover us for a good part of the study, if not the entire study.
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
It looks fine to me.
In terms of the ordering of the witnesses, something we've talked about, it may be out of order in the context of the budget, but just to flag it--
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
No, I want to discuss it, because it is relevant to this very point.
Many of the early respondents are people who are paying their own way, coincidentally, and in fairness to other witnesses who are going to be subsidized, I think we'll just leave it at that, in terms of who is asking to be reimbursed and who isn't. But I think it is fair to say, if you look at the list, that some of the early witnesses were either people from Ottawa and didn't require expenses, or people who were not going to file a claim. That's until we get this passed.
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
Okay.
I don't know if it's the same issue, but the sequencing of the witnesses so far seems to be heavily loaded to those who are going to speak to the economic issues. I think I have support within the committee as well, on this side, that maybe early on we should also get some witnesses who will speak to the environmental issues and some of the social issues. We should try to balance it a little more at the front end so we don't have a whole slate of people speaking to the economic issues and then go to Fort McMurray and hear everything about the environment and the social aspects. This way we would be somewhat briefed up on the range of issues, as much as we can, before we go to Fort McMurray.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
It's a point well taken, and I should tell the committee that Mr. Cullen brought this to my attention when the two of us first received this schedule from the clerk. I'll let the clerk speak to it as well, but my sense of it is that it wasn't quite as it first appeared, that there is some balance.
For example, on the 31st you'll see Dr. Jean-Pierre Revéret, who is appearing at the request of the professor who was recommended by the Bloc and was unable to attend.
3:45 p.m.
The Clerk
Mr. Reveret is a colleague of Ms. Gendron. She is the one who recommended him. There is no final confirmation but I did contact him.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
It was my impression that the testimony would be more on the sustainable development side rather than the economic side, Mr. Cullen. We also have BIOCAP appearing, and we have the Pembina Institute appearing earlier on.
Having said that, I take your point as notice, and I'll allow the clerk to speak to it as well
But we have a further revision to the schedule as distributed. The minister is unable to attend on November 7 and will have to appear on the November 9. November 7, which is before we go to Fort McMurray, could be totally dedicated to sustainable development and the environmental side of the issue.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
I think that would be a reasonable proposal. We have Pembina and a couple of others on November 7. If we could bring in something on the water issues, the aboriginal issues, the local municipal issues, or whatever, it would then give us a little more information before we leave.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
We have been in touch with the native people in Fort McMurray, the bands. I gave you a list of the names.
3:45 p.m.
The Clerk
Yes.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
I think we could do that on November 7. We'll make an effort to do that on November 7. But at least in that vein, we have quite a good list provided by all the members.
Madam DeBellefeuille.
3:45 p.m.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
Does the clerk expect that we will be hearing from witnesses who would analyze the social impacts of speeded-up development on the community of Fort McMurray? There is a great deal of documentation available at this time. Someone would need to take a critical look at what is going on in this community, with drug and alcohol problems, among others. Will we be hearing from any witnesses on the social issues involved?
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
