Evidence of meeting #16 for Natural Resources in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cullen.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
No, it's not. It would be in order if you were to twist his arm, but not in that form.
We're dealing with Mr. Cullen's motion at this time. We have accepted, I think, one friendly amendment to this point. It is up to Mr. Cullen to determine whether or not he wants to--
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
Maybe I was misreading the committee, but I don't see a major impasse. I thought we were getting close, and unless there is some problem--
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
For clarity, it was prior to voting for giving unanimous consent to pursue it today. I think the government members were of the view that this would be a resolution of the committee, as opposed to reporting it to the House. That is the difference that I think Mr. Tonks has picked up on.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
Well then, can I make another suggestion? What I can do is rework the wording along the lines we've discussed today, and we can deal with it on Thursday. Will there be time on Thursday?
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
Yes. If we have the agreement of the committee that the wording will be along the lines I've discussed today, we'll deal with it on Thursday. Okay?
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Fine. I think we have unanimous consent of the committee, so we can probably pursue it in that direction.
Mr. Ouellet, did you want to comment?
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Yes. I suggest that perhaps Mr. Cullen and Mr. Tonks might want to get together. The two of them could come up with something that might just fly the first time around.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
All right. To proceed then, on behalf of the committee, may I ask if your suggestion would apply to both motions that were previously raised?
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
Yes.
I don't know if I went over the wording of that one in as much detail. I think we're probably going to get into problems on the EnerGuide one when we say “the minister ignored the advice of departmental officials”. So what I would suggest, Mr. Chair, is that we say:
This government and the Minister of Natural Resources have terminated the EnerGuide for Houses and EnerGuide for Low Income Houses programs. The committee, in the interest of sound public policy, and for the benefit of all Canadians, calls upon the Minister of Natural Resources to immediately reinstate these programs and report this to the House.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
We are entering into debate that I think we are now agreed we will have on Thursday. As I said at the outset, if I could merely suggest one thing, it is that members of the committee seek the advice of the clerk before giving notices of motion so the clerk can advise on the procedural acceptability. That's the only thing we have a hang-up with here. It was the procedural acceptability.
Maybe I could suggest to Mr. Cullen that you run it past the clerk and get it to him so he can then distribute it to the committee before the meeting on Thursday. That's all I'm concerned with.
Mr. Thibault.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
For clarity for everybody, I assume from all the discussion that the unanimous consent is gone, those motions are going to be withdrawn, and that Mr. Cullen would be giving advance notice within 24 hours of the motion.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Yes, technically I think that's where we are. We are essentially giving notice again. We'll be a little short of the 48 hours, so I think we'll stay with the unanimous consent of the committee to rewrite the motions presented. That way we don't have to give 48 hours' notice.
Oh, it's 24 hours? Okay, fine. You will just resubmit them, after seeking advice of the clerk, I would hope, and then we won't have any problem on Thursday.
Essentially, the day is concluded. The motions have been called out of order. We'll have new motions presented to the committee on Thursday, with 24 hours' notice, and after discussion with the clerk.
Can I take you back to the first motion of the day, which was Mr. Cullen's suggestion that we add helicopters to our trip to Fort McMurray. The clerk has sought quotes, and remarkably, we have several. I think it's worth a minute or two of the committee's time. Maybe some of the more experienced members can let us know if they think we're going to get away with this.
What is it going to cost to fly the party around Fort McMurray for an hour or so?
4:35 p.m.
The Clerk
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My logistics person quoted three different companies, the most expensive of which would charge about $2,000 per flight hour per helicopter. I can give you the--
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
We need to listen for a minute because there are different combinations. Some of the helicopters take four people; some of them take more than that. There are different prices. Maybe you could go through it, and everybody should take notes to get an idea of it. We really want to look at the cost. I don't think you need more than an hour in a helicopter per person. It's probably the minimum they will rent them for. I think that's sufficient, and we can do that before we begin the bus tour, if we're able to do this.
Would you get to a point where you can say what it's going to cost to transport 14 people by helicopter for one hour, whether or not we're in two helicopters or five helicopters.
Mr. Thibault.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
Having had the benefit of the helicopter visit to Fort McMurray once, I was told at that time that before you fly over the property--I was there at the invitation of Suncor; I was using their property. But if you have to go to Syncrude.... I don't know if it was the law or if it was out of courtesy, but you have to have the permission of those companies. I don't know how valuable it would be to do the tour without somebody in there--the pilots probably know, they fly there all the time--telling you what you're looking at.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
If people didn't get that point, it was simply, what would be the value of flying around for an hour without having someone to answer your questions while you're in the helicopter, or to give you an idea of what you're looking at if it's not immediately discernible to a novice in the area? We might then have to have at least one person in each bird to give a running commentary. It's a good point. We'll keep that in mind. I guess I'm going to get into the situation of who to have. Are we going to have representatives of the companies, or who? Our host so far is Syncrude. Whether we could ask Suncor to do it, or somebody else, is one point.
The other question we have is translation. Will we have to bring additional translators along for each helicopter? I'd have to ask the indulgence of the committee. If it wasn't necessary to have them in all helicopters, perhaps we could waive that and have them in just one. I presume it would be an English guide.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
Syncrude would have francophone people capable of doing it. Half my community is up there.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Let's just talk about the numbers for a second. I'm sure we can work out the logistics. What were the numbers?
4:40 p.m.
The Clerk
Mr. Chair, I've been given the breakdown per seat per helicopter. I've been doing math while you've been discussing. It would be $7,000 per chopper per hour, plus fuel for the first company, and we would need.... No, sorry. It would be $7,000 per hour, plus fuel. Okay, for the first company--
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
That's not helpful unless people know how many people you can put in a helicopter.
