Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 19th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you.

May I just make one other comment in this regard? On deciding whether or not we carry on tonight until 11:30—at which point we would have to adjourn until Tuesday in any event—or, by a point of order or a tabling, move it to Tuesday, I just wanted to speak of Tuesday.

We have engaged witnesses to appear on Tuesday. They are coming in from the National Energy Board in Calgary, and also from the Canadian Energy Research Institute. Those arrangements have been made, and it would be rather inconvenient to stand them down.

I appreciated the courtesy of the committee today to allow us to hear the witnesses who were in front of us.

There are two reasons I raise this. One is that this clerk, who is familiar with the current motions and has ruled on them before in terms of their correctness, will, as I understand it, not be here on Tuesday. Also, I have been advised that one of our key witnesses for Thursday has called today and is unable to attend.

I only raise that from a logistical point of view. Could we perhaps come to some consensus that, rather than defer it to Tuesday, we defer it to Thursday? If we could have perhaps some sense that we might come to agreement Thursday, I think that might encourage others to put it off the Tuesday, presuming we could deal with the matter on Thursday instead.

Mr. Tonks.

[Alan Tonks, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, I was just consulting with Ms. Bell with respect to extending the time. It's 5:30. I would move—and she is in agreement—that we extend until 6 o'clock.

Because we have what is now an amended motion, the clarification that I would need is that the points of order are on the next motion. I would suggest that if the points of order that have been dealt with are the same as those we dealt with in the amended motion, the amendment has been passed.

Why don't we just concentrate on the motion as amended and go until 6 o'clock? Hopefully, we might even be able to get to and deal with those issues that you have with the second motion, but let's not prejudice that discussion. Why don't we extend until 6 o'clock and see if we can deal with at least the one motion? That would be my suggestion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

I appreciate the suggestion, but I think it has been made clear that there are other concerns by the committee with the amended motion. It is very unlikely we would get a resolution to that motion before 11:30 tonight, at which point we will adjourn, in any event, until next week.

[Alan Tonks, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

But they're not matters of order. On the amended motion, they're not matters of order, are they?

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

On the question of putting it to Thursday, I must say I'm not very anxious to do that. I tabled these motions. Admittedly, there were some problems with them, and I accept responsibility for that, even though I thought the clerk had okayed them. The point is, the motions have been around for a while, and frankly I want to get rid of them. I want to deal with them. I'd like to deal with them either tonight or Tuesday. Thursday doesn't really work, as far as I'm concerned.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Well, in practical terms, you might want to ask the clerk to order sandwiches, because I think it's clear that if you want to continue this debate tonight, we will be here until 11:30, at which point we will adjourn and it will carry forward to the Tuesday agenda in any event. That's just so we're clear as to what's going on here.

[Alan Tonks, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

With respect, Mr. Chair, not if there's a motion to extend to a specific time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

So you're prepared to extend it to 6 o'clock, and at 6 o'clock we adjourn whether we have passed the motion or not.

[Alan Tonks, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

That would be what would happen. I take it that requires unanimous approval.

I'm taking it that there is some degree of unanimity to extend the meeting until 6 o'clock to deal with this amended motion. That would be my motion.

Why don't you try it and see?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

There's no consensus.

[Alan Tonks, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

That was a good try.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

It was.

Mr. Cullen

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

I was just going to ask, if there's no consensus, what then?

I don't think there's support for Mr. Tonks' motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

No, there is not.

Again, to clarify, if we don't adjourn now, the debate will continue until 11:30 tonight.

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

What's magical about 11:30?

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

That's when they turn the lights out.

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Is that the legal limit about how long we can last?

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

No, that's just the practical limit. It's a little late to organize extra staff to come in. We have translators and other staff, but we haven't made prior arrangements, so the best we can do is to extend to 11:30.

The committee meeting was supposed to adjourn five minutes ago.

Again, I don't know how practical it is to do that when we know nothing is going to be accomplished between now and that time.

[Alan Tonks, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

I haven't been around to know all the tricks in the book, but it has been my experience that when we couldn't get a motion to extend, the committee adjourned at the time on the order paper. The clerk will verify that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

That would be nice. I would welcome a motion to adjourn.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Again, like Mr. Tonks, I'm not an expert on the procedure motions. Having been in a similar situation once in the aboriginal committee, my understanding was that it is the prerogative of the chair to rule whether the meeting is finished. So Mr. Chair, from my past experience, unless the clerk explains that I'm completely wrong, which is possible, Mr. Richardson does have the power to close the meeting at 5:30.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

I would just beg the indulgence of the committee for one minute while I talk to the clerks. We've brought in one of the veterans. Let me just see if we can come to some resolution here.

I'll be back with you momentarily. Let's take a two-minute break.

We will resume debate.

Mr. Cullen.

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Mr. Chair, it doesn't look like we'll reach some kind of solution and get this finished tonight.

I move that we adjourn debate on these motions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

That's not debatable.

There is a motion to adjourn.

(Motion agreed to)