Evidence of meeting #11 for Natural Resources in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aecl.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Anderson.
Mr. Trost, you have about three minutes.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Bradley Trost Conservative Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm just a little bit curious. Are there other critical health products for which similar supply issues could arise? If there are, what is the government starting to do and to take on to try to make sure that any shortages could be addressed? What should the federal government do if any other issues potentially come about?
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
On a very small or modest scale, from time to time there can be shortages of pharmaceutical products, for instance. We have a program called the special access program that can help us expedite unlicensed health products in these kinds of situations and speed up clinical trials of replacement products and that kind of thing. So that does exist.
Isotopes are unique in the sense that, as I said, their half-life is so short and the suppliers are so few in number that we are in this situation. Having said that, one of the take-home lessons is let's build up our relationship with alternative suppliers; let's work on various scenarios for future shortages and make sure we have at least some kind of reactive way.... We learned a lot in the days of the crisis. There was a heck of a lot of brain power in Canada being used at the ground level to try to come up with ingenious short-term triage solutions. That will help us if we face this again. I hope we don't, but if we do, we can benefit from that knowledge and experience.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Bradley Trost Conservative Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK
What contingency plans are in place to mitigate future risks? If the reactor were to shut down tomorrow for a period of one year or longer, what are we doing to get ready for a situation like that? How would we manage it?
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
It will be a challenge. Having the protocol in place will allow us to more immediately know of any potential issues so that there's a timely notification. I take some stock in the protocol. If it is a prolonged shortage, as I say, then some of the ingenious triaging methods will be useful. We can learn from that. I think it's fair to say that having gone through the last couple of months, many of us around the world are much more aware of the impact of potential shortages.
I have tasked my officials to continue to work with the advisory group. They're going to come back in February with more recommendations for the medium and longer term. Certainly I'll be tabling those with the public at the appropriate time.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Trost and Minister.
We're going to the second round now. Each of the parties in the second round will have about three minutes, starting with Mr. Boshcoff.
Go ahead, please.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Boshcoff Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
Mr. Chair, I'll be sharing my time with the honourable member from Brant.
Mr. Minister, I have two quick questions.
You referred to a conference call with other isotope suppliers that could have increased the supply by 15%. Were those suppliers willing to supplement the shortage--not replace it--to help alleviate the shortage at that time? Did they offer to do that, and did you take them up on it?
The second question is whether it is possible for you to table a list of the membership of your special advisory group, along with the dates and times of the advice you received from them, as well as written copies of that advice. Maybe you're able to do that now, and if not, perhaps to the committee at the end of the day when you--
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
The second point was to table what from the advisory group?
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Boshcoff Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
The advice you received from them and any chronological confirmation of time and dates.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
Sure. We have a chronology. If it has not been available to you, we can supply that. Absolutely.
Let me make the point that once we initiated contact with the alternative suppliers, they had to think about what they could offer Canada, at a time when I'm sure they were getting a few phone calls from other places around the world.
What became clear, in the case of the French, the Dutch, and the Belgians, was that they could get their 10% to 15% increment to us but not before the end of December. This, again, goes to the timing. We were going, as I said to Madame Gagnon, in parallel. At the same time as we were looking for alternative sources of supply, we were assessing the situation domestically. We came to the necessary conclusion that our only way out before the end of December, which to me would have put many Canadians at risk, was to table the legislation.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Mr. St. Amand, you have time for a 30-second question and a 30-second response.
Go ahead, please.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Lloyd St. Amand Liberal Brant, ON
Mr. Clement, Minister Lunn, when he spoke on December 5 with Ms. Keen, indicated that AECL dropped the ball. It's odd, of course, nobody has been fired from AECL, to the best of my knowledge.
You've talked on a few occasions this afternoon about your new protocol—as I understand it, a new protocol to ensure the safe supply of isotopes involving your ministry, the Ministry of Natural Resources, and AECL. Specifically excluded is the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission.
Is that because you get it, Minister, that it is not the job or the mandate of that commission to ensure that there's a safe, ready supply of isotopes? Do you get it in a way that your colleague, Minister Lunn, doesn't get it?
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
I agree with my colleague, Minister Lunn, not surprisingly, that certainly the CNSC has a broader obligation with respect to the health and safety of Canadians. In fact, a point that should be underlined is that they were given, as is a government's right to give, a directive to interpret their mandate to protect the health and safety of Canadians generally.
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Time's up, Mr. St. Amand.
We'll now go to Madame DeBellefeuille for three minutes.
1:55 p.m.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Minister Clement, I would ask that you reply in a concise manner. When were you made aware that the reactor shutdown would be extended?
1:55 p.m.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
Do you find it reasonable that the Minister of Health was only informed on December 5, whereas the Minister of Natural Resources had been made aware of the serious problems and risk of extension since November 30? To your mind, isn't it serious that two deputy ministers serving on the board of directors of Atomic Energy of Canada Limited, including Ms. Cassie Doyle of Natural Resources Canada, were aware that everything was going wrong and that there was a risk of an extended shutdown around November 30, and that despite this, the Minister of Health was only informed on December 5?
Do you find this reasonable and responsible?
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
I do not agree with your timeline. Indeed, Minister Lunn said before this committee that they had been informed on December 3, and not on November 30.
1:55 p.m.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
Pardon me, Minister Clement, but according to the minister's statements, his department had received an email—which of course was not addressed to him personally—making the information available to the department as of November 30.
We are dealing here with a lack of communication between Natural Resources Canada, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited, and your department. As you said yourself, each day counts. Time had already been wasted once European suppliers were called upon to help you deal with the shortage.
You can say that I am mistaken in my chronology, but I do not think this makes any sense. Minister Gary Lunn sits right next to you in the House of Commons, and when a problem of this scale arises, wouldn't it be the subject of discussions, be it in the hallways, at meetings, or through email? In my opinion, it is totally unimaginable that the two of you did not communicate to take action as soon as possible.
Minister Clement, were you in contact with Belgium to obtain isotopes, and if so, when?
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
A telephone conference attended by my department was held on December 10, 2007. Before this call, on December 7, officials from Natural Resources Canada communicated with the Department of Foreign Affairs with respect to the international commitment.
1:55 p.m.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
Therefore, Minister Clement, you are confirming that all European suppliers of medical isotopes were contacted, but you are not telling me the date on which each supplier was contacted.
I, along with all Canadians, am trying to understand why such an important telephone conference was held on December 10. Even if we cannot agree on the dates, those being November 30 and December 4, December 10 was still too late, given the fact that you were informed on December 5.