Evidence of meeting #39 for Natural Resources in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was binder.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Mr. St. Amand, I think it is relevant. I'll listen and make sure I'm comfortable that it continues to be, but she has made the connection to the motion we're debating.
Please go ahead, Ms. Gallant.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
The provinces, as well as the opposition federally, have proposed a carbon tax, and there will be a compounded effect. The single toughest input expense that the lumber industry puts forth is the cost of fuel, and in the sawmills the electricity. I don't know what certain members of the opposition have against the forestry industry, but in my riding of Renfrew--Nipissing--Pembroke we have a model for forestry and we sequester--
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Boshcoff Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
I think a point like that, after a unanimous report to Parliament from this committee, would be viewed as either moronic, idiotic, or sub-intelligent.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Younger forests sequester more carbon from the environment, and that seems to be the goal of what is trying to be accomplished, getting the carbon out of the atmosphere. So I would support the motion, since helping the forestry industry will overall encourage a reduction in sequestration of carbon from the environment.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Mr. Chair, we want to work with the opposition, as always, and because we had some support at the agriculture committee we'd like to work in a way that would allow the opposition, particularly the three Liberals who voted with the government on the motion at the agriculture committee, to be able to do the same here. Mr. Tonks was not at the agriculture committee and is the only one who's innocent here, but he can join Mr. Alghabra, Mr. St. Amand, and myself.
In the spirit of cooperation, I would like to pose a friendly amendment along the lines that Mr. Trost had suggested that will remove some of the text from our motion. So it would read that the committee report the following to the House at the earliest opportunity:
A carbon tax will have a negative impact on Canada's traditional industries, like forestry, and will eliminate jobs. The committee recommends, therefore, that the federal government reject any plans for new carbon taxes.
Actually, I have good hope that this would pass. I hope it will with the support of the official opposition. I was actually surprised to hear the Bloc now, Mr. Ouellet, expressing support for a nationwide carbon tax. I think that's something that should be noted as well. Hopefully they'll vote with us anyway.
I'd like to put the question if we can.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Anderson. We will now go to discussion on the amendment to the motion.
Any discussion on the amendment? Madame DeBellefeuille.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
12:50 p.m.
The Clerk
I can read it slowly in English or I can attempt to read it in French.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
I would like to have the best translation possible.
12:50 p.m.
The Clerk
Okay:
A carbon tax will have a negative impact on Canada's traditional industries, like forestry, and will eliminate jobs. The committee recommends, therefore, that the federal government reject any plans for new carbon taxes.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
All right. Is there any further discussion on the amendment to the motion? If not, let's go to the question.
(Amendment negatived)
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
We will go now to the motion as presented. Madame DeBellefeuille, you are on the list for that. I also have Mr. Allen.
12:55 p.m.
Bloc
Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
Mr. Chair, when I read the motion, I was somewhat pleased because I understood that Mr. Trost could actually have feelings. In fact, I perceive a lot of emotion in his motion. During our study on forests, he was rather stoic, but I see that he is capable, when he experiences an outburst of feeling, of drafting a rather charged text.
Because he has allowed himself to give in to his emotions, I will not be able to support this motion, Mr. Chair. I would now ask that we proceed with the vote.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
There seems to be a lot of love in the room right now.
Let's go to Mr. Allen, and then to Monsieur Ouellet.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm very surprised that the opposition voted down the amendment, for a couple of reasons. Number one, as Mr. Boshcoff pointed out, we came out of our forestry study with a consensus report, and we talked about some of the things that are going to be needed in the forest industry. I'm very surprised that people didn't pick up on the impact this will have on rural Canada and on the forest industries, because when you look at the major input costs in the forest industry, you're talking about the person who is going out there with their power saw, with their fuel. You're talking about the person who's taking a bunch of folks out in their four-wheel-drive, who's going to have to buy fuel. You're talking about the folks who are running the skidders, who are going to have to buy fuel. There are all of these impacts.
And while I'll grant you that some of the mills have converted to using biomass, once the costs start working their way back into the food chain or to the inputs that are coming into those mills, a carbon tax on the fuel is going to grind these people right to a halt.
I'm just amazed to be hearing some of the statements I'm hearing, especially when other countries now are very much debating how positive these carbon taxes are—as is rural B.C., as well.
Mr. Chair, I'm very surprised, considering the unanimous report we had on the forest industry, in which we wanted to make 23 recommendations to improve the industry, and now here we are looking to go away from a recommendation that would help, versus absolutely destroying the industry.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
12:55 p.m.
Bloc
Christian Ouellet Bloc Brome—Missisquoi, QC
Mr. Chair, I never said that I supported the tax nor that I was opposed to it. I said that we have to ask ourselves the question and that the most important thing was to tackle climate change. That is what will bring about a change in society. The tax is precisely something...
I agree with Mr. Allen that we must consider this. This is not something that we can just throw out spontaneously. You can't simply be for or against it. I agree with him, and several countries are studying this. Why don't we take the time to study this rather than coming to a decision right now? I do not think we have to have a clear precise opinion on this motion immediately. This is a very complex subject and we have to look at what the consequences of a carbon tax would be.
Should we do as Quebec, as British Columbia, or as Europe is proposing? There are so many ways of acting. What are we talking about when we talk about a carbon tax? We do not know, but we are about to vote for or against!
To claim that we actually have enough information to support or oppose the motion makes no sense. I am against the motion because it does not give us a true picture. The motion does not deal with climate change and it does not focus on the environment. In my opinion this is simply playing political games. The motion is trying to make us believe that this would lead to a horrible situation and that families will suffer, etc.
However, it does not say that there has to be a change in society or in attitudes. However, big countries like China are actually tackling that first, that is, an attitude change. But that is not stated.The effects of the tax are being talked about first.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Merci, Monsieur Ouellet.
Ms. Bell had asked to be recognized, and then Mr. Trost.