Natural Resources Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2009

[Dave McCauley, Director, Uranium and Radioactive Waste Division, Electricity Resources Branch, Department of Natural Resources]

Under clause 20, the question was whether it's an operator—

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Yes, if it's a nuclear operator versus.... Whether or not it's the current practice, one could imagine the transportation of nuclear material as being subcontracted. Under this liability regime, does it matter who is carrying the nuclear material when the accident happens?

[Dave McCauley]

No, it's whoever would be carrying the material. The damage to the means of transport or the structure or the site where the nuclear material is stored would not be compensated regardless of who owns the—

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

—who is moving it.

[Dave McCauley]

Exactly.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

As a second question, do operators currently have separate liability insurance for the transportation of nuclear goods? I ask because it seems as if that would be a moment that is different from the normal operation of a nuclear operator. I'm not an actuary, but I imagine it involves greater risk when you start moving things. Do operators carry their own insurance for the transportation right now?

[Dave McCauley]

This applies to the means of transport, not to the goods. So if there were to be a separate insurance policy for the means of transport, they would have to get that separate property insurance themselves.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

My question was whether they carry that type of insurance now, to your knowledge. Does the nuclear provider, when it's shipping material, carry some sort of liability insurance along with it? And if it does, how does that affect this liability regime?

[Jacques Hénault, Analyst, Nuclear Liability and Emergency Preparedness, Department of Natural Resources]

Yes, that's right. They have separate policies for the.... For nuclear insurance, it's a separate supplier's or transporter's policy for shipping. But again, this clause refers just to the means of transport. If there is an accident in transport involving nuclear material, the act covers that compensation, but not to the means of transport. It won't replace the truck. Under Bill C-20 the compensation will not replace the cost of the truck.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Okay.

I have one final question, then. If there is harm caused during that transportation accident, is the insurance carried by the nuclear operator only insurance that covers the truck or the train part? Does that transportation insurance also cover damages to the public or industries, or is that covered under Bill C-20? Do you follow my meaning?

I'm not worried so much about the truck. That's a truck or it's a train car. That's not what's going to be the big-ticket item. It's going to be if an incident occurs beside a river or if it affects a community or an industry.

[Dave McCauley]

That's covered under clause 8. If there's damage in relation to transportation, damage affecting third parties, that's covered under clause 8.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

That is picked up by Bill C-20.

[Dave McCauley]

That's right.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

So the insurance the companies have right now, in terms of transportation, is just for the actual transport itself and nothing else.

[Dave McCauley]

There can be separate transportation insurance for the facilities.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Okay, thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Cullen.

Shall clause 20 carry?

Go ahead, Mr. Cullen.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, just on the process, without causing the effect of a counted vote, if I wish to vote against, how does that get recorded in terms of the committee's business?

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

It's on division.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

That wouldn't record his name.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Can I seek “on division” for those clauses?

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Yes, okay.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you. That's what I'd like to do for clause 20, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Okay, that's on division.

(Clause 20 agreed to on division)

Yes, Mr. Anderson.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

This works as long as Mr. Cullen realizes his name isn't registered as voting against it. It just records that everyone is not in agreement.