Natural Resources Committee on Dec. 9th, 2010

[Kaity Arsoniadis Stein]

I think we could look to Norway for examples--

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Do you want to nationalize oil?

[Kaity Arsoniadis Stein]

Now we're getting into a different discussion. You're leading it into a different discussion.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Okay. I was just checking.

Are you a member of the Conservative Party?

[Kaity Arsoniadis Stein]

I'm sorry?

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Are you a member of the Conservative Party?

[Kaity Arsoniadis Stein]

Actually, I have no alliances at this particular time.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

All right. That's a good start. I was just checking.

[An hon. member]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

I might talk about the Calgary Flames later on.

But there are some alternatives, because there is a pipeline at the port of Vancouver. Don't you believe that...? Because we believe in the ban. Do you think expanding the one that already exists at the port of Vancouver would be a good alternative?

[Kaity Arsoniadis Stein]

What's curious about the ban, if we really analyze it--

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

That was a specific question, please.

[Kaity Arsoniadis Stein]

We look at the ban, and it's—

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

That was a specific question about the expansion.

[Kaity Arsoniadis Stein]

Yes, I'm getting to it. We're targeting--

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Coderre, you asked the question. Please let her answer. She's answering the question you asked.

Go ahead, please.

[Kaity Arsoniadis Stein]

Okay. So on my question with the respect to the ban, the ban is targeted in a particular area on our north coast. But what it's banning is entrance in and out of our coast, when at the very same time—and this is where the irony is—we have tankers transiting from Alaska down to Cherry Point, Washington, and Long Beach, along our coast, with freedom of passage through what is called innocent passage. It seems to me that what we're doing is preventing transit from our coast, yet we're allowing it along our coast alongside these areas where the tanker ban is instigated. So it's a curious--

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you. I'm sorry, but I have limited time.

I have the same question for Ms. Kenny. Secondly, I'm very interested in what you said about the regulatory process. Who should be in charge?

My first question is about expanding the pipeline that already exists instead of building another one.

[Brenda Kenny]

Starting on the question of expansion, I think you're absolutely correct in pointing to the fact that infrastructure does exist. For over 50 years there has been trade through the port of Vancouver, and that continues. The Kinder Morgan system is expandable, and even today I'm told that out of every 10 barrels that are shipped there, about one is heading to Asia.

I think what's important in terms of looking at public policy is to not foreclose market options. Whether the right choice is to incrementally expand the Kinder system and/or bring in a new system, the key is to leave that open to choices best made in terms of the scale of market development, timing, and the types of investments. I'm not convinced that it's an either-or.

With respect to regulatory decision-making, what I was trying to allude to is that when you're looking at sustainable development, it's very important that you look at questions of the environment within the context of what works for society, social communities, and the economics related to that. Integrated decision-making is a part of what came out in the Rio principles, as well as public participation.

Today you asked the question with respect to oversight. For any international or trans-provincial pipelines, we have the National Energy Board Act. It regulates the large pipelines that cross borders, which I believe makes a lot of sense, because they are contiguous with a vast network of pipelines in North America.

It's also important to ensure that the requirements of CEAA are met. As of this year, often that can be managed through a substituted process so that, again, you are able to do one project, one assessment.

I remain concerned that some of the permitting can take people off track very late in the game. In your deck, there are some photographs of required permits that are clearly not legitimately of high concern. Those are important to address in final construction design and not particularly relevant in large public interest decision-making. That's the sort of streamlining that will give us the ability to make consolidated decisions a little better than we do today.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Make it a short question for a short answer, Mr. Coderre

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

This is for my colleague, Scott Andrews.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

My question is for Kaity.

Yesterday the Auditor General's office gave a scathing report on the coast guard's ability to respond to a ship oil spill. Since they are the lead agency, it's something of a concern when they rely on the shipping companies to be the first responders.

If Canada's lead agency doesn't have the ability to clean up a spill, how can we have any confidence that the shipping companies and the people they contract have up-to-date equipment and are capable of cleaning up spills that happen?

[Kaity Arsoniadis Stein]

Thank you.

I think that report needs further analysis, but I can tell you that with oil response in Canada it's a cascading system. In other words, the coast guard is the point of first response, but in addition to that, and not to a lesser degree...in fact, I would say that the primary role is where we contract out. On our west coast, we have Burrard Clean, which I would say is the lead agency with respect to cleanup. So I think the two things are a little bit different.

Now the coast guard has the report from the commissioner of the environment and it has recommendations. Great. We need to review those recommendations and we need to ensure that everything is possible to take on the recommendations and address the report that has come out.