Yes, I am.
Evidence of meeting #38 for Natural Resources in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pipeline.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #38 for Natural Resources in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pipeline.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
President and Secretary-General, International Ship-Owners Alliance of Canada Inc.
Yes, I am.
12:50 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I'm just reading from the act now. There's a $30 million liability limit “in respect of any area to which the Act applies and for which no other limit is prescribed by these Regulations, the amount of 30 million dollars”. Is that correct, to your understanding?
December 9th, 2010 / 12:50 p.m.
President and Secretary-General, International Ship-Owners Alliance of Canada Inc.
I think you need to look at the holistic regime. We have the ship-source oil pollution fund in Canada, and then we have the international oil pollution compensation fund. That's an international fund.
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but billions are available for any type of spill that would come. I could come back to you with the analysis of that. I don't have it off the top of my head.
12:50 p.m.
President and Secretary-General, International Ship-Owners Alliance of Canada Inc.
It's way in excess of $30 million, way in excess.
12:50 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
The way the act is written right now, liability limits exist unless negligence is proven. Is that correct?
12:50 p.m.
President and Secretary-General, International Ship-Owners Alliance of Canada Inc.
Liability will be there irrespective of the type of accident. I don't understand what you're getting at with this.
12:50 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Okay. That's interesting. The liability regimes in Canada that exist, even precluding those two funds you mentioned, subscribe that the liability limit for an oil spill in the ocean environment off the west coast is $30 million until liability can be proven--negligence can be proven--in court.
I have a question for our friend from Calgary. I'm looking at the Alberta Energy and Utilities Board report, “Pipeline Performance in Alberta, 1990-2005”. Are you familiar with this report, Ms. Kenny?
12:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Energy Pipeline Association
Only vaguely, because that covers a large number of pipelines that are more related to gathering and small-level pipelines, not the major transmission systems.
12:50 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Sure. I'm a little surprised, because this is one of the most major and comprehensive reports done by the Alberta government with respect to pipelines in general. That is your association, the Canadian Energy Pipeline Association, and in this report--
12:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Energy Pipeline Association
But what--
12:50 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Allow me just to--
Ms. Brenda Kenny --I have to point out, sir.... Okay.
12:50 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Allow me to suggest what this report says, and I'm quoting again: “During the period 1990 to 2005, there were 12,848 pipeline incidents reported to the EUB (not including test failures). Of these, 657 were hits with no release, leaving 12,191 resulting in a pipeline release”. That's industry terminology for “oil spill”. It says that of all of these “93.8% were leaks, and the other 6.2% were ruptures”.
Should that cause any pause for the people in northern British Columbia who are facing the prospect of another pipeline?
12:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Energy Pipeline Association
Not at all. I would direct you to the slides I provided. The actual data with respect to large transmission pipelines, as provided by the National Energy Board, is on the seventh-view graph you have. It clearly demonstrates that ruptures for large-scale pipelines are significantly lower and are declining rapidly. That goes back to what I said in my opening statements with respect to internal inspection.
The numbers you're directing to are numbers related to upstream development. That is not at all related to the major pipelines. It would be similar to saying that the design of a major highway compared to a gravel road, for instance, is quite different. The safety requirements for small travel versus large travel are quite different. So the results I have for you there are much more relevant.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you.
Are you aware of the recent Sinopec deal in May of this year to purchase, with $4.6 billion, a portion of the Syncrude operations in Alberta? Are you familiar with that at all?
12:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Energy Pipeline Association
Yes, somewhat.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
You realize that the government, the Prime Minister's Office, decided to end that deal before it could get any progress. Is that true?
12:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Energy Pipeline Association
I can't speak to the validity of that directly, but I do know that there were requirements clarified over the last couple of years with respect to foreign direct investment. They were really targeted at ensuring that money flowing into Canada would be governed under the same sort of classification as private enterprises here: transparency, good governance, and clearly not co-opted by state regimes.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
That's interesting, because that's not the reason given by the Government of Canada. Mr. Harper's spokesperson, Andrew MacDougall, said, “The government is committed to implementing our campaign pledge” to not send raw bitumen to places where they have lower environmental standards. Are you familiar with this pledge from Mr. Harper?
12:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Energy Pipeline Association
I am familiar with that pledge, yes, and--
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
The confusion that's raised with respect to the projects, particularly with the Enbridge project, is that it's designed, as both you and our friends from the shippers association--to ship raw bitumen to Asia to, as you say, “diversify” our markets.
12:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Energy Pipeline Association
Yes--
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
The raw bitumen would be going into a regime with lower environmental standards than we have here in Canada. Is that not true?
12:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Energy Pipeline Association
I don't think that is true. I think what's important to keep in mind is that by the time these pipelines.... If they were to be deemed to be in the public interest, what you're going to be seeing overseas is a significant development of brand new technology, so just as we have a number of upgrades under way in our own refineries today, and current and new technology is at least compatible with Canadian standards.
I believe that when we're looking at Canadian public interest, particularly on global issues such as air quality and climate change, we need to understand the energy system on a global level. That would be something that over the course of the next six to seven years I think you'd see considerable gains in with new installations.
