Natural Resources Committee on May 31st, 2018

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

So it wasn't you.

[Bruce Cameron]

It wasn't me.

Number one, the private sector is collecting a whole lot of energy information today. We gave the example of ecobee and the 30,000 volunteers. Nest thermostat, in parts of the United States, is actually collecting that information and offering it back to the utilities. They will give rush hour rates back to the consumer, if you let them control your heating and cooling load a couple of times a year. Once you've signed on for that, they sell it back to the utilities to shave their peak. They become an intermediary between the utility and the utility's customers, to offer a new service.

I would say, generally, that because of technology and so on, the private sector is going to be looking for all sorts of opportunities to monetize and take advantage of energy data as their products become more pervasive inside the homes.

It's not a matter of making a decision. The private sector is already active in doing that.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

It's not just energy data.

[Bruce Cameron]

Of course not.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

They're looking for all types of data.

[Bruce Cameron]

Part of it is, what is the model for the private sector to actually go in and act as an efficiency agency inside a home? They would much rather go into institutions and large residentials. They would like to go to CAPREIT and cut a deal for tens of thousands of apartments, rather than coming to my home and spending the time.

There are public agencies creating and operating in this country now for efficiency purposes, where a lot of the collection of that data and technology and so on can be done on a quid pro quo basis. I'm collecting your data; I'm also giving you a service. If you say the private sector, in a broader way that also encompasses some of these not-for-profit agencies.... They'll collect the data. As long as they collect it in a uniform, standardized way, it should be just push a button and that's shared back up with the energy information agency at no great burden at all.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

I have to stop you there because we're over time already.

Mr. Tan, you have five minutes.

[Geng Tan, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for sharing with us your thoughts on energy data.

I'm very simple minded. The impression I have from your statement and your answers to the questions is that we do have good energy data somewhere. We also have strong players in the collection of energy data, but the issue right now is that the general public does not have good access to the data because of privacy issues, or they have access but most of the data, as you said, is for single-use purposes, not for multiple purposes. The quality of data is not good enough to meet the requirements of the general public. Is that what what you said?

[Bruce Cameron]

Let me put a few more nuances on that.

If I sit in Halifax, there are a whole lot of people who would be heating with home heating oil and who might have supplementary wood. I'd certainly have an electricity bill, and I might have a bit of propane. The oil company that delivered it understands exactly how much energy I use, but do they report it back to me in a form that I can use very well? The answer is absolutely not. It's almost impossible to read the darn bill to understand why I'm being called upon to pay $500, never mind how this compared to last year, or whether it was because it was a cold winter. Why did it go up? They don't provide that information. They're not in that business, and they don't do it. I have no clue how many cords of wood I used this year because I bought a bunch last year. As for the propane, again, it's just like the oil. I understand a little about my electricity bill because it does provide me with a comparison of what I used last year, but again, it doesn't true it up and tell me whether that was a particularly cold year, or prompt me to remember that I put a second fridge in my basement.

Yes, there is data there, but to let me make a meaningful decision about the things I want to know, a whole lot of players have to act differently and provide more information than they do today. They're not going to do it voluntarily in many cases. Somebody needs to figure out how to get them into a position of giving me information that I can use and understand, and requiring it to happen over a long enough period of time so that they're updating their IT systems instead of having to invest a whole lot of money.

[Geng Tan, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Thank you. That's a very good example. Who's that somebody? What's the best approach to address this kind of issue? Just give a very simple idea.

[Bruce Cameron]

I think the data from all those suppliers should go to a public body.

[Geng Tan, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Centralize it.

[Bruce Cameron]

You could have 14 public bodies across the country. If they're all wired and connected, and they're using information and the same standard, then they can share amongst themselves very easily. You don't necessarily have to have every electron movement reported directly to Stats Canada.

[Geng Tan, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

The problem here is that no matter how many systems you want to build, and how centralized the system is, you still have to rely on the data provided by each consumer. You said it: you didn't know how much energy was used for the fridge and the stove. It's very much dependent on the willingness of each consumer to submit that data. Usually they don't give you enough data. No matter how strong the system is, the source of data is still not good enough, so you still have the same problem.

[Bruce Cameron]

One thing the Atlantic Canada energy data road map looks at is where technology is going. What are the opportunities to have this reported by the energy provider in a fairly simple, straightforward way if you evolve it over a decade? Instead of putting the burden on the consumer to report....

[Geng Tan, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

You're suggesting that they use better technology to improve the quality of data instead of making the data collection or data reporting more mandatory.

[Bruce Cameron]

Today you have the technology, through advanced metering infrastructure for electricity and gas, to report in a much more detailed, granular form. If you do it in a standardized way, you could meld that information quite easily. You'd need to fill a few gaps on things like oil. If you plug that in, in the same standard, and you do it over time, you'll then get your energy picture from the bottom up instead of the top down.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

We're going to have to stop it there.

Thank you both very much, for coming back and providing us with a great deal of valuable information.

We will suspend now for a few minutes, and then let's try to start sharp at 9:45.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

We're going to resume.

We have two witnesses joining us this hour. From the David Suzuki Foundation, we have Patricia Lightburn. From Quebec Native Women Inc., we have Myriam Landry. Thank you both for joining us.

We're going to jump right into it. Each of you will be given up to 10 minutes for a presentation. You can deliver your remarks in French and/or English and anticipate questions after that in French and English.

Ms. Lightburn, why don't we start with you.

[Patricia Lightburn, Manager, Science and Policy, David Suzuki Foundation]

Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today about the current and future state of national energy data in Canada.

My name is Patricia Lightburn. I am the manager of science and policy at the David Suzuki Foundation. I have a background in energy policy, including at one of Canada's largest pure play renewable energy companies, the provincial government of British Columbia, the International Energy Agency, and the former Ontario Power Authority.

Founded in 1990, the David Suzuki Foundation is a national, bilingual, non-profit organization headquartered in Vancouver, with offices in Toronto and Montreal. Through evidence-based research, education, and policy analysis, we work to conserve and protect the natural environment and help to create a sustainable Canada. One of DSF's greatest priorities is to advance climate solutions that accelerate the transition to a low-carbon Canada and help meet Canada's Paris Agreement commitments.

From the world's leading scientists to business leaders from the World Economic Forum, experts have identified climate change as the greatest economic and environmental threat facing us today. Energy knowledge and data are critical for Canada to succeed in the 21st century economy and to be a responsible global actor on climate change.

Canada has an opportunity to position itself at the forefront of clean energy innovation and to be a developer and exporter of climate solutions by leveraging our vast renewable resources to power our homes, transportation systems, and industry. Decarbonization of our electricity sector and economy is the clear path to meeting our Paris commitments, and yet without robust energy data, we are challenged to find consensus on a model to reach our 90% non-emitting electricity generation target, let alone 100%.

Data will allow us to model where renewables can be efficiently added to the grid, the role of demand side management and smart grids in optimizing our electricity system, and where additional storage or transmission solutions are required to allow the highest levels of renewables integration. This type of analysis will not only facilitate the transition to a clean energy future but also help to maintain the reliability and affordability of electricity in Canada.

Our cities, energy, and transportation systems are in need of modernization and expansion to meet the demands of growing populations and to replace aging infrastructure. Transmission and distribution networks, energy storage, and smart grids are essential components of our future energy system. As Canada embarks on one of the largest infrastructure investments in its history, energy data will be critical to guide spending and ensure that this historic investment is aligned with our climate commitments.

Energy data should underpin many of the policies that are critical to achieving our climate goals, such as carbon pricing, electricity regulations, and the clean fuel standard. Energy data allows for stronger policy development and analysis, and more robust monitoring for effectiveness. Electricity generation and operation data guides the electricity market reform policies that will allow the integration of significant levels of renewables.

Currently, energy data is scarce and rarely recent or available in real time. Data collected for energy modelling by universities, governments, energy regulators, industry associations, think tanks, and other non-governmental organizations is typically pulled together with difficulty from several sources and becomes unavailable following the study because it is not housed in a public repository. This has created duplication of effort and has made robust debate challenging because a common data source is not used. Many Canadian researchers have to source energy data for Canada from the U.S., our major energy trading partner, from such sources as the Energy Information Agency.

What follows are several recommendations on the future of national energy data in Canada.

First, Canada needs an independent source of publicly available, timely, granular, energy and electricity data overseen and supported by a team with deep expertise across different energy sectors. Energy data is complex. For it to be useful and for the cost and time investment to be worthwhile, it needs to be generated by experts who are familiar with the data required and how it will be used.

Second, the type of data that is required includes current and future demand and supply, size and location of generation projects by technology, transmission and distribution infrastructure and capacity, existing and forecast storage capacity, energy and electricity imports and exports, emissions profiles of energy production, hourly and daily generation profiles, and consumption and sales prices broken down by wholesale, commercial, industrial, and residential categories. This list is by no means exhaustive.

Third, the focus should initially be on a narrower set of data. It is more important to collect data that is relevant and trusted than to collect a large amount of data that will be underutilized. Once the value of the data has been tested and demonstrated, the scope should be expanded to meet diverse stakeholder needs.

Fourth, a new organization should be created to collect and manage this data. It should work closely with existing government organizations and ministries such as StatsCan and NRCan. It is critical, however, that this organization be independent from government for the data to be impartial, fully accessible, and timely.

Fifth, the Government of Canada needs to empower such an organization with sufficient authority to obtain the necessary data from a variety of sources. Much of the data in Canada is currently contained within provincial governments, regulators, agencies, and electricity utilities, and historically has not been easy to access.

Sixth, build on best practices. Experts from within Canada and other jurisdictions, for example, the International Energy Agency, the U.S. Energy Information Agency, and the National Renewable Energy Laboratory should be retained in an advisory capacity during the development and operation of this organization to build on best practices and ensure harmonization across jurisdictions to the extent possible.

The cost for such an exercise may seem significant; however, in the context of the anticipated $48 trillion of global investment needed to meet the world's energy needs from now until 2035, such an investment is minor. Furthermore, the data generated by such an organization would be used widely, not just by energy modellers, but by industry, academics, NGOs, and governments in Canada and abroad.

Given the threat of climate change, DSF believes that Canada has an unparalleled opportunity to pursue decarbonization of our energy systems and economy, given our abundance of renewable energy resources, skilled workforce, and Canadian ingenuity and know-how. To seize this opportunity, a foundation must be built on quality data to advance Canadian energy knowledge and research modelling to show the path forward. Without this data, there is a risk that Canada will make uninformed investment decisions and fall behind in the energy economy that is rapidly evolving and in meeting our Paris climate commitments.

Thank you for your service to our country and for your time to discuss these critical decisions today.

I would be happy to answer any questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Landry, we're now going to you.

[Myriam Landry, Coordinator, Environment and Sustainable Development, Quebec Native Women Inc.]

Kwe. I would first like to thank the various aboriginal nations for allowing us to meet today on their ancestral land.

I represent Quebec Native Women Inc. as a coordinator for the environment and sustainable development.

Quebec Native Women Inc. represents Quebec's first nations women, including those living in urban areas. Our members come from Quebec's 11 aboriginal nations and various aboriginal groups from the rest of Canada who are living in Quebec's urban communities. We are members of the Native Women's Association of Canada. We also sit on the Assembly of First Nations Quebec-Labrador, the First Nations Human Resources Development Commission of Quebec, as well as a number of other aboriginal and non-aboriginal commissions and committees.

In pursuit of its mission to defend the rights of aboriginal women, Quebec Native Women Inc. has been engaged for a number of years in issues related to the protection of the environment and resources. Our organization outlines aboriginal women's specific concerns and perspectives with regard to their access to land and its resources, as well as the protection of their traditional knowledge.

In collaboration with the Hutchins Legal law firm, in March 2017, Quebec Native Women Inc. submitted to the National Energy Board Modernization Expert Panel a brief whose goal was to raise the expert panel's awareness of the realities experienced by aboriginal women as an “intersectional” group. The idea was specifically to raise their awareness of the implications and specific risks all major projects regulated by the board may have for those women.

I am here today to remind the expert panel that aboriginal women are suffering specific and disproportionate consequences of major energy development projects. Those projects are affecting their land and resources permanently and contributing to climate change, to which aboriginal women and communities are more vulnerable than the rest of the population. The fact that aboriginal women are the ones who benefit the least from the economic impact of those projects within their communities makes this reality even more worrisome.

Currently, the National Energy Board's regulations, policies and guidance notes contain no requirement in terms of the assessment and consideration of aboriginal women's concerns or the specific and disproportionate impact those projects have on them.

Although, since 2011, at the request of the Native Women's Association of Canada and Pauktuutit, the Inuit women's association of Canada, the option to carry out a gender-based analysis in consultation with aboriginal communities has been included in the guidelines for federal officials to fulfill the duty to consult, neither the National Energy Board Act, the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act or their implementation policies make that an obligation.

In 2014 and 2015, Quebec Native Women Inc. also participated in a series of conferences held in Ottawa and Vancouver as part of an international symposium entitled “Gendered Impacts: Indigenous Women and Resource Extraction”. At that event, people pointed out a worrisome lack of specific data on the particular impact of land and resource development on aboriginal women. However, those projects' specific and disproportionate repercussions on aboriginal people and women and the resulting climate change are increasingly recognized in Canada and around the world.

The consultation policies currently applied by Canada in regulatory and environmental processes, including those carried out by the National Energy Board, leave no room for the voice of aboriginal women and do not require a fair representation of their interests. This situation is related to a double under-representation of aboriginal women and a virtual lack of consideration for their concerns, the risks they are exposed to and their specific interests within aboriginal governmental structures at the community, regional and national levels. The situation is the same in the consultation processes carried out by the federal government or its delegated officers. As a result, inequalities and discrimination against women are created and perpetuated.

That double under-representation is reflected in the environmental and socioeconomic impact studies, environmental assessments and the required follow-up measures for regulatory processes, especially in preliminary negotiations and the text of agreements signed with promoters and governments. No special attention is paid to aboriginal women in those documents, or to their concerns, rights or interests.

We argue that the modernization of regulatory and environmental processes requires the full participation of women in the decisions related to land and its resources and that their interests should be taken into account properly. As a result, the voice of aboriginal women must come through clearly in the national data on energy.

Regardless of the process used and the entity in charge of reviewing the assessments of environmental or socioeconomic impacts on aboriginal communities, appropriate mechanisms must be implemented to ensure the assessment and the taking into consideration of the specific repercussions of development projects on aboriginal women.

For example, Canada must, in collaboration with aboriginal women, adapt the current gender-based analysis model to aboriginal realities in order to be able to use it as an analysis tool to assess the impact of major development projects regulated by the National Energy Board. In order to ensure that aboriginal women's perspectives are really taken into account, that tool must make the active participation of aboriginal women or organizations that represent their interests mandatory in the assessment of projects' environmental and socioeconomic repercussions.

To that effect, the federal government must provide aboriginal women and organizations that represent them with the resources and capacities they need to carry out appropriate studies on environmental impacts and fully participate in the environmental assessment process.

In addition, environmental assessments must take into account the unique perspective of aboriginal women that stems from their special relationship with the land, their traditional knowledge and their role in the transfer of that knowledge to future generations. The exclusion of aboriginal women from the public arena, such as courts or studies on traditional land use, has rendered their traditional knowledge invisible. Therefore, concrete and specific measures must be implemented to encourage their participation in the environmental assessments of large-scale development projects, in order to address the lack of national data on energy.

Those are the main recommendations of the brief presented to the expert panel related to issues we are discussing today.

The government must implement, in collaboration with organizations representing aboriginal women, such as Quebec Native Women Inc., specific mechanisms to ensure the full participation of aboriginal women throughout the consultation process of aboriginal communities on projects regulated by the National Energy Board, especially regarding the management, design, planning, execution, assessment and monitoring of projects.

The government must provide organizations representing aboriginal women with adequate and realistic resources and funding to address the concerns and specific interests of aboriginal women in the processes currently undertaken by the National Energy Board.

The government must support and fund organizations representing aboriginal women as they carry out in-depth studies to document and analyze specific repercussions of projects regulated by the National Energy Board on aboriginal women, so as to address the lack of analytical and statistical data in that area.

We recommend that the government require the integration of a gender-based analysis adapted to aboriginal realities in the assessments of environmental and socioeconomic impacts undertaken with regard to projects regulated by the National Energy Board. To that effect, the gender-based analysis method already used by the federal government could be adapted and used as a tool for assessing the specific repercussions of those projects on aboriginal women.

In light of the concerns and recommendations Quebec Native Women Inc. is outlining in this brief, we can say that access to national data on energy provides many benefits for community, provincial and national aboriginal organizations, as it makes it easier for us to gather documentation and get informed when decisions that concern us are being made.

However, as it has been shown, there is a major lack of data on energy concerning specifically the country's aboriginal women. It is worrisome that decisions are being made based on current data on energy, when we know that aboriginal women are the ones who benefit the least from the economic impact of those projects and that they will face the most direct negative impacts.

By addressing that lack of data on energy, the government would enable organizations representing aboriginal women such as Quebec Native Women Inc., aboriginal communities, researchers and officials to make more informed and fair decisions, so that the rights and interests of aboriginal women would finally be taken into account better.

Kchi wliwni. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Harvey, you're going to start us off.

[TJ Harvey, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank both of our witnesses for being here this morning.

I'm going to start with Ms. Lightburn.

I was particularly intrigued by page 3 of your comments. Actually, I was pleasantly surprised by your comments on page 3, because I think they reflect a lot of what we've heard during this study, which is the need for an independent agency that's separated from StatsCan and removed from government, similar to the U.S. system or the international system, and that allows for appropriate data collection.

I think one thing that was brought up to the committee was the sheer independence of the U.S. system and how they won't necessarily work with states or state governments in the collection of data because of past differences of opinion on that data. They've veered away from that, and they've plotted a course to ensure that the data is relevant and is provided in a timely manner and reflects what the actual data is.

As somebody coming from the field of study that you're in, what do you feel the most appropriate first steps would be in implementing such a strategy?

[Patricia Lightburn]

I do think the creation of an independent organization is important, It's also important that it be led by the right experts. I think the first step would be to identify a number of people who would lead this organization who have deep expertise in energy data, whether it's from a combination of the electricity sector or oil and gas, from across the different energy sectors, to make sure that the data that is collected is relevant. That would be the first step.