Evidence of meeting #100 for Natural Resources in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was data.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:05 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
I'm sorry, but the bells have started ringing.
There's a vote. The bells are ringing.
10:05 a.m.
Manager, Science and Policy, David Suzuki Foundation
Thank you nonetheless.
10:05 a.m.
Liberal
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
How many more minutes? How much longer does T.J. have?
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
I'd be willing to cut mine in half and then give you guys a five-minute slot and Richard a five-minute slot. Do we have time for that?
10:05 a.m.
Liberal
TJ Harvey Liberal Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
I only have one more question, and when I'm done, I'll turn it over to you guys.
10:05 a.m.
Liberal
10:05 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
Why don't you ask your last question, and then, Jamie, you go for a couple minutes, and then Richard, you could have a quick question. Then we can get out of here in about five or six minutes.
Do we have unanimous consent on that? Yes? Okay.
10:05 a.m.
Liberal
TJ Harvey Liberal Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
I'm going to ask both of you this question, and it's really simple.
Based on your comments, and based on what I heard here and in your presentation, too, if we create an overarching body that's completely independent from government and that has the appropriate people in place to make concise decisions about energy data on a go-forward basis and that carries the confidence of Canadians, if that data does not always necessarily reflect what your organizations feel is in the best interests, where do you stand with that?
10:05 a.m.
Manager, Science and Policy, David Suzuki Foundation
I think the advantage of having timely impartial data is that it provides an opportunity for robust discussion and debate, and I think that that's healthy. If we disagree with some of those positions, then we're happy to have those conversations, and we welcome that opportunity.
10:05 a.m.
Coordinator, Environment and Sustainable Development, Quebec Native Women Inc.
We definitely want there to be equal representation of aboriginal knowledge regarding the project's impact. Half the aboriginal knowledge or data used to make decisions must absolutely come from Canada's aboriginal women, or else the knowledge of half the aboriginal population will be lost. There simply needs to be fair and equal representation of aboriginal knowledge, so that the committee can make informed decisions.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
Okay, thanks.
Ms. Stubbs, go ahead for maybe one or two very quick questions.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
I'm sure you are both delighted that you are owners of a pipeline today.
I'm interested in the information, Jennifer, that you've reinforced here that at the beginning of the study, Greg Peterson, the director general of agriculture energy environment transportation statistics in Statistics Canada said, “We have identified gaps in the data on renewables.” That's been reinforced in previous studies by representatives of Canada's regulatory agency as well as senior officials even in the Department of Environment. Then you said, “Data will allow us to model where renewables can be efficiently added to the grid” and that energy data is “scarce and rarely recent or available in real time.” We've heard that previously. Exactly what data is missing on renewables?
10:10 a.m.
Manager, Science and Policy, David Suzuki Foundation
A lot of the operations data for renewable energy projects is missing, as is a lot of the generation data and consumption data, so where that electricity is needed and how it can get there. I think Canada has relied very successfully for a long time on its hydro capacity, but as we add more variable renewables into the grid, we need more sophisticated granular data to see how that energy can be effectively integrated, and we don't have that right now.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
Thank you for explaining that. I'll tell you quickly why that causes me deep concern.
In 2016-17 a percentage of the total amounts of federal grants in Canada in the energy sector, mostly in the form of direct subsidies, was to wind. I know there are wind power projects that have received, for example, exemptions also from the Species at Risk Act in order to be set up. Literally hundreds of billions of tax dollars are flooded into those projects, and I think it is very concerning that these public policy decisions and expenditures are being made when we're receiving repeated and clear confirmation that there is a lack of data on the technology and on these projects. To your point about efficient and valuable expenditures of tax dollars, I think that's very concerning.
That's all. Thank you.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
I'm going to have to stop you there.
Mr. Cannings, do you have a very quick question you want to get on the record before we go?
10:10 a.m.
NDP
Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC
I would like to ask Madam Landry a question.
You mentioned the importance of incorporating indigenous knowledge. We're talking about energy data here, and you also mentioned very briefly best practices. Maybe you could tie those together and let us know if there are any best practices out there about incorporating indigenous knowledge into energy data systems.
10:10 a.m.
Coordinator, Environment and Sustainable Development, Quebec Native Women Inc.
When it comes to women, there have been experiences with including women's committees in consultation processes, but only aboriginal women's committees, so that they could freely express their concerns about the project.
When it comes to aboriginal knowledge specifically related to the environment, there have been a number of collaborations between scientists or universities and aboriginal groups. However, first nations members' knowledge on the ground must also be taken into account. So everything must be considered just as much as the scientists who will come with their test tubes. That knowledge is rooted in the land.
Taking into account the knowledge of first nations members is part of a consideration of aboriginal peoples' traditional knowledge, by working together and in an equal manner with community members who are on the land and those who are in urban areas. Just because an aboriginal is not on their land, it does not mean that they do not have any knowledge of what is happening in their community and their land in terms of the environment.
Those practices exist....
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
I'm going to have to ask you to wrap up because we are running rapidly out of time.
10:10 a.m.
Coordinator, Environment and Sustainable Development, Quebec Native Women Inc.
Okay.
I hope I answered your questions.