Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 18th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Good morning, everybody. Thank you for joining us.

We have a number of special guests with us today. Thank you for being here.

Most importantly, we have two groups of witnesses, one by video conference. We have Mr. Connors from the Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre. From Tree Canada we have Michael Rosen, President, and Léo Duguay.

I understand, sir, at one point in the past you were sitting in other chairs around these tables, so welcome back. The next part will be redundant for you because you know the procedure.

For the other two gentlemen, we're going to give each group up to 10 minutes to make a presentation. Then that will be followed by questions from around the table. You can deliver your remarks or answer our questions in either official language. I anticipate you will be asked questions in French as well as English, and there are translation devices available if you need them.

Mr. Rosen and Mr. Duguay, why don't you start us off.

[Léo Duguay, Vice-Chair, Board of Directors, Tree Canada]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

It's interesting to see me on the other side. In my presentation, people will see me in a somewhat different, and not at all partisan, light. Trees aren't partisan.

Thank you very much for inviting me and Michael to be here. I am not a tree expert, but I like trees. I know how important they are to people. They help clean the atmosphere. They help people in communities feel better. They provide shade for people. There is a number of really good things about trees that we all endorse.

Tree Canada was formed, interestingly enough, a long time ago in 1992 by government action. The government funded an organization to plant trees. We have since morphed from an organization dependent on government money to an organization that is almost now exclusively financed by the private sector.

The very interesting things that people do.... I'm part of a community of 140 houses, and this fall we are planting 29 edible trees. This will produce way more fruit and edible nuts than we could ever eat. We're partnered with a group called Hidden Harvest Ottawa, which will help with the harvest and redistribute the food.

Since 1992, we have planted more than 82 million trees. We average more than 300,000 trees a year, all almost exclusively funded by the private sector.

As you might expect, the association gets calls from you and from groups all over the country asking about trees and what is happening and what can be done. We employ a large number of foresters who are experts in the field. Whenever I go and do something for Tree Canada, I'm always well supported by an expert. If you have easy questions, they come to me. If you hard questions, they go to the experts.

Our expert today is the president of Tree Canada, who has been with us a long time and who knows about trees.

Mike.

[Michael Rosen, President, Tree Canada]

Thank you very much, Mr. Duguay.

I'm very pleased to be here with you.

My name is Mike Rosen. I'm the president of Tree Canada. I'm also a registered professional forester in Ontario, so I have some background knowledge. I've worked for 35 years in forestry, one way or the other.

Thank you so much for inviting us here to talk to you. What I want to talk to you about today is the dilemma that Canadians face. We're stewards of 10% of the world's forests. We are the forest nation. It's very important for our country, yet we're a very urban people. Over 82% of Canadians now live in cities and towns. This is the dilemma that we at Tree Canada try to wrestle with, if you will. It's how to reflect trees into the lives of people who are essentially urban people.

The committee had asked us to come in and speak about forest pests. I do want to touch briefly on those, because you've asked me specifically about the mountain pine beetle and the spruce budworm.

The mountain pine beetle is an interesting one for us, because it's a native insect that normally was controlled by low temperatures in the winter. We don't get those temperatures anymore. We get hot summers as well. It's meant that we've had a proliferation of mountain pine beetles beginning in 1996 in British Columbia. It absolutely decimated the lodgepole pine population of British Columbia. Then it crossed into the Rockies in 2006 and entered into Alberta. We were really lucky because we worked with the Province of Alberta on a program to actually replace residential trees on private land that were killed as a result of the mountain pine beetle.

There are a number of things that can be done to try to limit the infestation of the mountain pine beetle but it's incredibly difficult, just as it's difficult with the spruce budworm. Spruce budworm is another native insect. It functions on a 35- to 40-year cycle, but it's really predicated on mature balsam fir, overmature balsam fir. Unfortunately, balsam fir is not a tree that a lot of mills like to use. It's an underutilized species, if you will.

There are some things that the industry can do to protect trees until they're ready to harvest, but it's mainly a stop-gap measure. It's really an insect that ecologically has a purpose in the forest and is on a cyclical basis.

The other thing that I was asked to talk to you about today, though, was actually the Canadian urban forest strategy. Tree Canada was part of a larger effort that was called the national forest strategy. It went from 1988 to 2008. It was a government NGO effort that really tried to show the world that Canada is moving towards forest sustainability. In the last iteration of that strategy, urban forests were included. When the national forest strategy was not renewed after 2008, Tree Canada picked up the ball with respect to the Canadian urban forest strategy, and we have kept that alive to date.

We interact with 950 urban forest professionals across the country in implementing and keeping alive the Canadian urban forest strategy. What's interesting for you as a committee is that the words “urban forestry” were actually invented by a Canadian. Dr. Erik Jorgensen, in 1974, at the University of Toronto, coined this term, which was totally oxymoronic until recently. People could not put the two words “urban” and “forestry” together. It's only lately that people really get it. Now we have a proliferation of groups across the country, like Trees London, GreenHere and Soverdi, that are working to keep our cities and communities green.

The irony I want to tell you about is that unlike every other G8 nation, we really don't have urban forestry reflected at a federal level. It's really been relegated to that of the municipalities. It's in stark contrast to our friends to the south, the United States, that have, at the deputy minister level, someone actually responsible for urban forests. There are a number of historical reasons for that, but it's something that we would really like to see remedied.

We don't have to tell you how important cities are. No matter how you look at it, environmentally we need trees in our cities. People are living in our cities. Besides that, there is an economic piece to this as well. We have to attract the best companies and the best minds to our cities in Canada. We're up against all the other cities of the world. Industry wants to locate their workers in a place that is green and welcoming, and we feel that trees obviously add to that. I just want to get the point across that the tree piece is not just an aesthetic piece. It's also something that has to do with livelihoods as well.

There are many problems occurring in our urban forests. They've actually been in decline in the last 20 years. Our Crown cover has been going down in the last 20 years, and we really want to see that remedied. There are a number of things that we could be doing, but the main point that I want to leave you with is that whether it's Dutch elm disease, emerald ash borer or whatever that is invading our urban forests, we need the help of the federal government to do that.

I'll pass it over to Léo.

[Léo Duguay]

In the document we provided, we've given some very specific recommendations.

Let me hive that down to two things.

Canada's urban forest planning and operations are implemented solely by municipalities. That ought not to be so. Our challenge to you is to do something. The federal government is not involved in a very important area of urban forestry, and you ought to be involved. We're the living proof of how a small amount of federal government money can lead to an organization such as ours that is now self-sustaining. That can be done easily.

There's a whole second part of it that naturally can be done more efficiently by the federal government. That has to do with education. There are a lot of things that you can do. As an example, the Library of Parliament has a lot of education programs to promote democracy. Natural Resources Canada could do the same to protect and enhance the urban forest.

I'll leave you with those two things. You're not doing much now, so do something.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

All right, on that note, thank you, Mr. Duguay and Mr. Rosen.

Mr. Connors, the floor is yours.

[Kim Connors, Executive Director, Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre]

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thank you very much for the opportunity to appear before you this morning.

While I understand your focus is that of forest pests, I will point out that I'm not an expert in the relationship between forest pests and quantifying the subsequent fuel loading for wildland fires. However, I can say with confidence that one only need look at the province of British Columbia in both 2017 and 2018 and the increased fire intensity in those areas affected by the mountain pine beetle. I would also further point out that in Ontario, in 2018, some of the areas that burned had been damaged by the spruce budworm.

I want to focus my time this morning on the increasing wildland fire problem in Canada, which is relatable to the increased fuels that are presented by the forest pests, and the challenges associated with our ability to respond.

Canada is experiencing increased incidence and intensity in the occurrence of wildland fire. As the impacts of climate change grow, fire size and severity are likely to increase and the fire seasons will become longer. At the same time, more human activity is taking place in the forests, creating greater consequences for the social and economic health and safety of Canadians.

Recently, we've experienced record-breaking temperatures on four continents. Wildfire seasons in Canada are longer, wildfires are increasing in size and intensity, and wildfire-related impacts are changing at an alarming rate.

Provincial states of emergency related to wildfires were declared in Saskatchewan in 2015, in Alberta in 2016, and in British Columbia in both 2017 and 2018. Since 2011, approximately 175,000 people were evacuated from Canadian communities due to wildland fire. Public health, communities, infrastructure, environment and the economy are also affected. Since 2015, suppression resources have been fully committed nationally, and international assistance was required. This trend will continue.

While the statistics have not been totally compiled for the 2018 wildland fire season, intuitively I can tell you, from our organization, that we know new records will be set in terms of multiple provinces and territories being challenged at the same time, namely in 2018: Quebec, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and British Columbia.

Pan-Canadian and international resource sharing of personnel and equipment is an annual requirement. Since 2015, Canada has imported around 2,000 highly trained and experienced human resources from international partners to address the demands of our increased wildland fire activities.

Wildland fire is a wildfire management, public safety, public health, climate change and community issue, with indigenous, rural and remote communities being particularly vulnerable to the changing climate.

In 2005, the Canadian wildland fire strategy was signed and approved by all levels of government in Canada. Unfortunately, the financial commitment envisioned in the strategy was not realized, and while some incremental progress was made, the progress fell far short of what was required. Fortunately, in 2016, the strategy was refreshed and renewed and is now the focus of the Canadian Council of Forest Ministers, who agreed recently in Halifax to accelerate its implementation, but the urgency of this implementation cannot be overstressed as the impacts of climate change become more apparent in Canada and the goalposts continue to move.

Transformative change is required. There is an urgent need by all Canadians to fully implement the Canadian wildland fire strategy and to do so with great haste. This will definitely involve the federal government.

I thank you very much for this opportunity to address your committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thanks very much, Mr. Connors.

First up is Mr. Serré.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you witnesses, for your work.

I'm going to ask you a few questions in French.

Mr. Connors, during the forest fires in northern Ontario, Parry Sound, Lady Evelyn and River Valley, I had a chance to go and see the work you do everywhere in Canada. I just want to congratulate you on your efforts all across the country.

Mr. Connors, do you have any data or statistics that you could give the committee on your experiences? You're there when forest fires break out. You say that there are more fires and that temperatures have risen.

Do you have any specific data on insects?

[Kim Connors]

Thank you for your compliments, to begin with.

I would be able to provide data on the statistics for the increased fire intensity and severity and the increased movement of Canadian resources and international resources to assist with those fires, such as you witnessed in Ontario this year. In terms of data related to fuel load as a result of pest and insect damage in Canada, we would need to seek other expertise on that. There is data, but unfortunately we're not the experts or the holders of that data.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

It would be appreciated if you could provide that data to the committee at a later point.

Messrs. Duguay and Rosen, you mentioned two points in your recommendations. I'm not an urban guy, and cities have enough resources to take care of themselves. You may disagree with the idea that they don't take care of forests, but I'm looking more at the role of Canada's municipalities.

Do you have any specific recommendations for the government?

Forest management is obviously a provincial jurisdiction. We are federal MPs. You're talking about the municipalities. So that's a third level.

What are your specific recommendations for the federal government in collaborating with the provinces and municipalities?

I'd just like to understand the division of powers in this area.

[Michael Rosen]

Thank you for your question.

There are two ways to answer your question.

First, the federal government lacks leadership. It projects an image more than anything else.

It would be good for the Canadian Forest Service's website to have a section that reflects the realities of urban forests. There's currently nothing on that subject there.

Second, many researchers conduct forest research for the federal government. We think they need to focus more on urban forests. Many municipalities will be looking to the United States and Europe for solutions to Canada's problems. That's unfortunate because we have qualified people to answer questions, solve problems and address urban forest issues. We're not using that knowledge as we should.

As I said in my presentation, we are the only G8 country that doesn't have a deputy minister responsible for urban forests. More than 80% of Canadians now live in cities. Consequently, this is a national issue; it's not one that should be studied only by the municipalities.

[Léo Duguay]

I'd like to add that 82% of Canadians live in urban areas, and that's where the problem originates. We must not separate the two and say they can take care of themselves; we're all responsible for doing what we can to solve the problem.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you very much for the work you do.

What can we do to increase the value of those 82 million trees?

I'm from a northern Ontario riding, Nickel Belt, and my colleague Mr. Lefebvre is from Sudbury. We've planted 14 million trees. We've been recognized by the United Nations. Before that, in 1972, everything was black and rocky in our region. Keep up the work you're doing.

The last question I want to ask concerns education. Mr. Duguay, as you know, if you tell the committee to do something, it will do nothing.

Do you have a specific recommendation for us about what we should do?

The federal government has a lot of money. However, you said the private sector was very much involved.

How can we improve what the private sector is currently doing?

[Léo Duguay]

Here's an example.

Parliament passed a bill establishing a date in September for National Tree Day. This year, the minister, the Hon. Amarjeet Sohi, came and planted a tree with us. The government makes a big deal out of the bill but could use it to establish a major day of education across the country. It has a lot of resources at its disposal. My point is simply that all ministers have a role to play in doing this.

[Michael Rosen]

I would like to add something to that as well.

It's increasingly evident that we are spending much less time outside than we ever have in the history of people, and particularly here in Canada. It doesn't matter if you're in the south or if you're in the north. I'll put it to you this way, children are spending a lot of time in front of screens—you know that; everybody knows that—and it's having an effect on our health, mental health and physical health.

I am saying that this is an issue that's much greater than our needing a few trees on a boulevard. This is a health issue. It's an important issue. I would say that an education.... There are two pieces that I want to speak to as far as an education program is concerned. We need—

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Sorry, Mr. Rosen, but I am going to have to interrupt you. We're beyond Mr. Serré's time, but you should be able to get that in at some point.

Mr. Eglinski.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

I'd like to thank all three witnesses for coming out today. It's very good to see you here.

I'll start off with the two gentlemen who are present and live.

You were talking about municipalities. I know we have things like the national building code. Most provinces have a provincial building code, and a lot of municipalities have a municipal building code.

Are you finding more and more municipalities across Canada adopting a green space into all their new projects? Do you feel that's an area in which the federal government might be able to participate? Anybody who wants to make a development, a new subdivision, has to have a certain amount of green space and forested area.

[Michael Rosen]

I think that you're absolutely on to something. We don't have any kind of standardization in that respect, and I think it's really needed. I think you're really on to something.

I was in China two years ago. They have a system called “forest cities” in which they accredit how many metres 80% of the population is from a green space area. They have a whole bunch of criteria. I think that's definitely the way to go. Encourage municipalities to incorporate more green space in their development. Development is going to occur, but how it's going to occur is always the question.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

I'm glad you mentioned China. I was there a few years ago and I toured one of their recent urban developments that housed about 150,000 people. I remember at that time the contractor told me that 50% of it had to be green, so they had to go underground with a lot of the parking structure. I think there are areas that we could enhance and work on nationally.

I wonder if you could tell us approximately how much money your organization spends a year in the promotion of your programs.

[Michael Rosen]

We raise $6 million a year to run our programs, and every part of our program has an educational piece. We plant 300,000 trees a year, but honestly, I'll say this to the standing committee, 300,000 trees in a country the size of Canada is not a lot. It's less than a drop in the bucket. We don't do it because we think we're greening all of Canada. We do it because we think we're setting an example for Canadians. I think that's the important thing to remember.

The incredible thing is that the $6 million that we're raising pretty well solely from the private sector is being matched, if you will, by a lot of volunteer labour that comes out of our municipalities and our volunteer base as well.

As I just said, education is a piece of all of our programs. We make sure that's a part of it.

[Léo Duguay]

I'd like to add one quick element. Raising that kind of money, for which the board and others are often responsible to steer, is not an easy job. It's not easy to raise that kind of money.

When we say to you “do something”, we're really saying, “Encourage people. Do more. Make it more important. Make it a bigger issue. Set code rules. Do all kinds of things that will make our job easier.” If you choose to give some money, we won't turn it down.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

All right, thank you.

I'd like to now direct my question towards Mr. Connors.

I was reading through some of the fast notes—I'm not regularly on this committee—and I noticed that on October 4, one of my cohorts, Mr. Whalen, addressed one of the witnesses. I believe that was Mr. Alex Chubaty, from Healthy Landscapes.

He made a comment that I found a bit alarming, and I'd like you to respond to this. He asked why we are doing anything regarding the mountain pine beetle, and went further, after Mr. Chubaty responded to him, to ask why we don't just leave well enough alone.

I wonder if you would comment on those two comments. They are alarming to me, when I see what's been happening in western Canada.

[Kim Connors]

Certainly I'll respond to them.

I would start off again by reminding you that my expertise is not in entomology. What I would assume that the gentleman was saying is that it's a natural cycle and maybe we should leave that alone.

I guess my response would be that, involved in an organization that responds to public safety and wildfire suppression.... I mean, we know that fire is a natural occurrence. There's a lot of work done in this country to help fire have it's natural place in society. We also know that wildfire can be devastating to human life and livelihood under the right conditions.

Again, I couldn't argue against the gentleman, because I don't know from where he was coming. I would say that with climate change and with the increased amount of fuel available for consumption, public safety is at risk, particularly in the northern communities, indigenous communities. We need to invest in the Canadian wildland fire strategy to try to protect those communities.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Thank you.

I asked this question to the last group.

What would your organization spend, on average in a year, assisting communities and other agencies around Canada in protection of our forests and public safety?

[Kim Connors]

In total, Canada spends over a billion dollars now a year in wildland fire protection. The Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre, of course, has a collaborative model. We spend roughly $2 million to help those organizations. In Canada, if you look at the provinces and territories and Parks Canada collectively, they spend now about $1.2 billion, which is up from five years ago.

If you would have asked me that question five years ago, I would have said it was about $750 million. Last year alone, British Columbia spent $750 million and will probably do so again this year. Ontario, of course, this year was devastated and had one of the worst seasons they've had in probably 20 years. They will spend about $300 million or $400 million.