Evidence of meeting #118 for Natural Resources in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was efficiency.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Yes, so I'm assuming—you might not have the figures in front of you—that those that truck in your supplies would potentially pass on the cost, which you then would have to pass on, on top of everything else you're facing.
Vice-President, National Maintenance, Loblaw Companies Limited
The supermarket business in Canada is very competitive. At the end of the day, businesses have to make money to stay in existence. We try to manage these cost increases in every way we can. Energy efficiency is one of the ways we try to reduce our costs. As a result of that, energy efficiency in Ontario, because the costs are higher, becomes a greater focus.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Absolutely.
I would also argue that what you are doing, in terms of making your operation more energy efficient, you were doing before the carbon tax.
Vice-President, National Maintenance, Loblaw Companies Limited
We've been actively involved in energy management for the 30 years I've worked at Loblaw.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
That just makes good business sense. You did that because it made sense. It was able to keep you competitive. You didn't need the next great big government program to help you do that. Is my understanding correct?
Vice-President, National Maintenance, Loblaw Companies Limited
We work in a merchant business. Energy management initiatives compete for capital against merchant opportunities. As a result of that, if the returns recognized from energy-efficiency projects are not better than the merchant opportunities, the capital will be directed to merchant opportunities.
Conservative
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
How much is lots, just out of curiosity? Your lots and my lots may be different.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
If you had the choice, if the government were to come forward with some plan moving forward, would you prefer a tax credit for energy efficiency or a government program that you have to apply to, and maybe if the government deems you are worthy of getting some of your money back, they'll be able to give that to you?
What would you prefer?
Vice-President, National Maintenance, Loblaw Companies Limited
On incentive programs, our preferred approach is performance-based incentive programs. Incentive programs driven into your rate structure, in my opinion, are a way utilities reduce the risk associated with administering these programs. It would reduce the overhead that the utilities spend on delivering these programs. I think it would ultimately get to where the system operators want to get to, which is managing on-peak electricity reductions. We want to focus on when we're using electricity as opposed to how much electricity we're using.
Conservative
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
That's perfect.
You're a larger company. What do you typically look at for your return on investment, in terms of timeline?
Vice-President, National Maintenance, Loblaw Companies Limited
Our company's hurdle rate is, generally speaking, an IRR of around 16%.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
I'm very sorry, witnesses, but I have to move this motion.
I do have lots more questions; however, I will wrap up at about seven minutes to give Richard his time as well.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
No, I'm going to wrap up at about 10 minutes to, maybe, to give Richard his chance.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Witnesses, we'll just be a second.
The motion states, “That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Standing Committee on Natural Resources, in light of the Federal Court decision to overturn the approval of the Trans Mountain Expansion on August 31, 2018, and in recognition that the economic ramifications of this decision reach far beyond the provincial border of Alberta, the Standing Committee on Natural Resources immediately invite Dennis Darby, the president and CEO of the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters and chief representative on the Ontario Council of Manufacturing Executives, and Jocelyn Bamford, from the Coalition of Concerned Manufacturers, to appear before the committee to inform the members of how the court's decision may affect future investment in Ontario's manufacturing sector, its supply chain, and the impact on jobs and growth for Ontario's manufacturing firms; and that the meeting take place no later than November 18, 2018; that the meeting be televised; that the committee report its findings to the House; and that, pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee request that the government table a comprehensive response to that report.”
Richard, I don't know if you've missed it, but I'm going to wrap up so that you have time to do your questions.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
I'm sorry, Mr. Schmale. I was just reminded that we have the meeting ending at 12:45 because we have committee business to deal with. I don't know if that changes what—
Liberal
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
I have about a minute. Oh, shoot.
I'm sorry, witnesses. Sorry, Richard. I have seven minutes.
Do you want to dismiss or will I go until wrap-up?