Natural Resources Committee on Nov. 8th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Witnesses, it looks like we're not going to have any more questions for you this morning. I apologize for that. Mr. Schmale has introduced a motion which, it looks like, is going to consume the balance of our time this morning.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Chair, can we have these witnesses back for questioning?

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

I don't see any reason why we couldn't do that. Subject to their availability, of course, we'd be happy to do that.

We will ask you to leave so that you don't have to—

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

It's going to be pretty amazing.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

You're welcome to stay and listen to Mr. Schmale, but you're free to leave, and I would encourage you to do so, frankly.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

I will express our gratitude on behalf of all the committee. We will try to have you back. Thank you.

I'm sorry, Jamie. Go ahead.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

The most important economic decision made by this government this year—and perhaps history will show the most important economic decision, period—is the decision surrounding the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.

This project, which twins the existing 1,100-kilometre Trans Mountain pipeline between Strathcona County, Alberta, and Burnaby, B.C., would create a pipeline that increases capacity from 300,000 barrels per day to 890,000 barrels per day. If built, the expansion would ensure that the Canadian oil industry can reach new markets by expanding the capacity of North America's only pipeline with access to the west coast. If built, the project would inject $7.4 billion into Canada's economy during the construction phase. If built, oil producers would see $73.5 billion in increased revenues over 20 years. All three levels of government would see a share of $46.7 billion in additional taxes and royalties from the construction and 20 years of operation.

According to the Conference Board of Canada's estimates, the project would, if built, create the equivalent of 15,000 construction jobs and the equivalent of 37,000 direct, indirect and induced jobs per year of operations. Direct construction workforce spending in communities along the pipeline route is estimated to be $480 million, should the pipeline ever get built. Overall, the project would generate, if built, more than 800,000 direct, indirect and induced person years of employment during the project development and operations.

A few weeks ago, the National Energy Board laid out the next steps for its review of the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion project's efforts on the marine environment. Federal government departments had until the end of October to present evidence, while other indigenous, industry and environmental stakeholders will have until November 20 to file their submissions. The final cost of the government's Trans Mountain purchase is expected to be released some time this month.

However, the government still doesn't have a plan to get this project built. Getting the Trans Mountain expansion built should be the Prime Minister's top priority. Instead, he spent $4.5 billion of taxpayers' money and still can't tell workers when construction will start or when this important project will be completed. That's quite a big concern on this side, Chair.

It's not just concerning for this committee, which, considering the amount of taxpayer dollars that have been sunk into buying the project, has yet to address any of the issues raised by members of this committee to examine the report on one of the largest investments of public money in recent years. It's not just concerning for the Canadian workers and families who depend on these jobs to put food on the table. It's not just concerning for the communities up and down the construction route that depend on the revenue generated by the economic activity that the expansion represents. It also concerns Canadians and business sectors from coast to coast, and one of those sectors impacted is the manufacturing sector right here in Ontario

I'd like to take the opportunity to read an excerpt from an article written by Chris Varcoe which appeared in the Calgary Herald on May 24 of this year. The headline is “Moody's warns of economic consequences of Trans Mountain failure”. At that time, committee members may recall that Canadians were unsure where this government would land on TMX, whether they would kill the project outright, find a buyer, nationalize it, or provide the certainty that TMX was really looking for so that it could finish the project for themselves. The article states:

Federal Finance Minister Bill Morneau has offered to provide...to Kinder Morgan on any further political uncertainty created by the B.C. government. The federal backstop would be available to a third party if the pipeline company decides to withdraw.

While the federal offer is welcome, there are more [problems] ahead on the file that's already as politically complex as quantum physics.

“Although this (promise) eases some of the related credit risks, the federal announcement lacks detail”—

That's all in the Moody's report, and that was six months ago. Unfortunately, we're still lacking details. The article continues:

Cancelling the federally approved venture would increase transportation costs for Alberta oil, forcing more crude to move by rail.

It would cut into provincial revenues “at a time when the province is already forecasting a prolonged period of deficit and rapidly rising debt,” the report states.

In his spring budget, Alberta Finance Minister...projected $8.8 billion in red ink this year and another $20.6 billion of deficits before the province sees a balanced budget in 2023-24.

That is based upon achieving success on the pipeline front.

Chair, are we wrapping up at 12:45?

Obviously, I have so much more to say, and I know everyone wants to hear it.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

We'll have to wait 12 days to hear it.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

It's going to seem like forever, because the suspense will grow.

We on this side have continued to ask the government to look into this study, based on the impacts it has right across the country, yet they continue to shut down debate. On this side of the House, the frustration continues to grow. We will take their decision to adjourn debate as a vote of no, that they do not want to actually address this issue or take it forward to start getting answers.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Before we go to Mr. Serré, I assume you're aware that Jocelyn Bamford, who is referred to in your motion, is actually listed as one of the witnesses in the study we're doing right now.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

That's wonderful. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

So she will be here. There's a small victory.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Maybe we can hear from her twice.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. Serré, you have the floor on the motion.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

I move that debate be now adjourned.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Do you want a recorded vote Mr. Schmale?

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Yes.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 3)

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

We're moving to committee business. We have budgets we have to deal with. Do you want to present them?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Jubilee Jackson]

I sent these budgets by email last week. They're for your approval. I'll have them distributed.

If you could suspend, we'll move in camera.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

We'll suspend and move in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]