Evidence of meeting #129 for Natural Resources in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was community.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
4:40 p.m.
Board Member, Indian Resource Council
Exactly.
Then we've created partnerships, because our financials prove that we are good money managers. We have other industries; other institutions are looking at us and saying they feel comfortable investing and partnering with us, so we partnered with the Calgary Academy on education to help us with our reading, writing and math while we develop other components within our education system.
That's what it's done for us. There is still a long way to go.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
I think that also goes to the point about how you have local control and you're able to make these decisions.
4:45 p.m.
Board Member, Indian Resource Council
We do have local control, and we're able to make these decisions, but the Indian Act has impeded a lot of the decisions. In the Indian Act, we have to beg for our own money. When our money goes from what we collect from our leases and so on, it goes into a capital trust and we have to do a band council resolution and explain why we want our money.
Mainstream society says how come first nations' people aren't doing things on their own. The system does not allow us to do it unless we buy into the legislative regimes that are there, which is at the expense of treaty a lot of times. You're caught between a rock and a hard place, keeping your eye on the prize at the end of the day, which is to move your community from poverty to wealth.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Maybe we can also talk about that, as we're talking about opportunities created through this and through the consultation program.
When northern gateway was vetoed, about $2 billion dollars of potential wealth was lost for those 31 first nations communities.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
We are. If we're talking about consultation and they were not consulted on that, and they're talking about wealth and opportunity, this ties in perfectly with what we're talking about.
4:45 p.m.
Calgary Centre, Lib.
We are talking about international best practices and how it worked—
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
We're talking about international best practices as they relate to domestic practices, because we only control our borders. So I think this ties in perfectly.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
If the question is fact-specific to something that happened here, my view is that it's not dealing with international best practices.
If you can make a connection, Mr. Schmale, it's fine, but otherwise I think Mr. Hehr's point is correct.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
If we're talking about opportunities, and you mentioned some of them.... As potential pieces of legislation are debated, if you are not consulted, you risk losing potential opportunities.
4:45 p.m.
Board Member, Indian Resource Council
When we look at the Trans Mountain pipeline as an example, never before have I heard a government give the opportunity to first nations to invest. We're excited as first nations' people that here is an opportunity to be a main player in a game. How do we bring that in and seize the moment without squandering that opportunity? Part of that is convincing our own people.
We are the stewards of the land. As stewards of the land, first and foremost is the environment: the water, the oceans, the streams, the salmon, and so on. That's who we are as Indian people. But for some reason there are people who believe that you can't balance that with the economy. Being a pipeline owner would then put you in the seat to determine the types of environmental standards and so on, and the type of consultation that would go into an engagement with those first nations that are affected on the line, and those that are not.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
Thank you.
I'm going to have to stop you there. You went over time.
Mr. Serré, I believe you're next.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Marc Serré Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
Thank you to all the witnesses for your presentations and all the work you're doing. For the council, wow, I wish we could have a study to try to see how we can expand your model across the country.
When we look at best practices internationally and at a structure—and you mentioned the engagement and having a stake in Trans Mountain—how best do you feel, from what you've heard internationally, can the federal government...? You talked a bit earlier about 636 first nations and that the AFN doesn't represent you. What kind of relationship do you believe the federal government should have with you to do what our other witnesses have said on the economic development side because you're creating jobs and attracting capital?
What structure do you believe the federal government should utilize with you to expand that ownership and that engagement in resource development even further than what we're doing now?
4:50 p.m.
Chairman, Indian Resource Council
If I could answer that quickly, what the government needs to do is recognize that the one envelope doesn't fit everything. They need to first of all see that. They need to recognize the territories in which and the ways in which this policy or this legislation is going to have an impact. That goes back to this question of consultation. Also, they need to recognize those individual communities, because in the treaty we're all sovereign, and that's something that is never, ever talked about.
Just quickly on best practices, you need to have solid financial laws and policies, just as any other corporation does. Where else and who else in Canada has a $60-million line of credit with a financial bank as Onion Lake does? Internationally, people in Europe are willing to finance projects. The Asian market and people in Saudi Arabia want to invest in first nations in Canada. If this government is going to allow first nations to be at the participating table of economic vibrancy resurgence in Canada, we can bring that to the table. That's an international best practice, establishing that credibility internationally through solid financial and economic development partnerships.
4:50 p.m.
Board Member, Indian Resource Council
Further to your question, there are a number of proponents out there that are positioning themselves in regard to this opportunity, which is the TMX. How do we define that? How do we bring people together?
Consultation has been taking place. The NEB is doing another round of consultations and so on and so forth. That's a great decision—all power to them. But how do we engage? How do we figure out how to engage with the first nations that are affected on the line and those that aren't? That's what we're developing. How inclusive is the process for us?
Project Reconciliation, which I founded, is saying, “We want an all-inclusive process”, an all-inclusive process recognizing those who are on the line and those who aren't. What might that mean? How much money are we looking at? Can it be financed? You have the haves and the have-nots in first nations communities, so how do we engage those who don't have money and those who do?
We've come up, I believe, with the answer, although we're still fleshing it out. It is is that every person, every first nation community, should have a stake in western Canada with regard to the play on Trans Mountain. If you don't have money, no worries. But then, what do we do from there? Is it per capita, per community, or do we reinvest that money to grow it and make it into something else—into the international markets?
We have many examples in first nations country of how they know how to make money, or they have money, but this is not about money. Project Reconciliation is not about money. It's about environment. It's about waters. It's about getting it right. It's about ensuring that we develop the best standards and the best policy that is required—whether it be about tankers coming in there, whether it be about how our lands are affected, or so on and so forth.
That comes from your engagement with those communities, to embrace the opportunity that this government has put forward.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
February 21st, 2019 / 4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
It's a fascinating discussion here. As I look around the table, I see that Mr. Eyking and I are the old men in the group here—he's not listening. We've been here the longest.
I remember when I came to this place. I said to my wife shortly thereafter that this is a difficult country to govern, with the first nations, the east, the west, the French, the English, and it goes on and on. It just gets tougher and tougher as we grow.
Then I heard the Prime Minister say it, and I thought I must be right. Then I found out the first prime minister said it. This is a difficult situation, but it seems to me that the problem we're talking about, and I believe you've really hit on this, is that there has to be a collective effort to move this country forward. This has never happened. I think we need to sit at the table with all levels of government, including first nations. We should be including industry, labour, academia.
As we plan for the future, I get excited about the very things I hear you talking about. The biggest problem that we have in this country is the cross-border trade. It affects you, too.
Like Mr. Eyking, I'm not going to be here in the next election. I look forward to the day we see that taking place. I see you as leaders in that capacity.
Would you agree that if we had the courage to take those steps, to decide as a nation that we can do this, and to include all peoples, that we could possibly get to some of these...rather than always having this top-down effort that we've adopted for a century now?
Do you want to comment on that maybe? I'd just like to get your inputs.
4:55 p.m.
Board Member, Indian Resource Council
Thunderchild First Nation wasn't built only by Thunderchild First Nation members. It was built by farmers coming in to help us build it as we were displaced from our land in Delmas, by North Battleford. It's that type of relationship and partnership and understanding that breaks down the barriers to our just living and coexisting. But the answer is not having little Peter from a farm that is 15 minutes away from our community come to school there, but having to ride an hour and a half on a bus to go to Turtleford because the system doesn't allow us to charge those who are coming to our school.
If we were to come together for the right reason...and we're talking around the Indian problem rather than trying to deal with the Indian problem. But there's been a lot of interference with that from our own people as well, who are misrepresenting what they should be representing. We have politicians who misrepresent that as well.
How do we get through all of that stuff to what matters and create what has to be created? That's why when a collective comes together, it's not picking one off to the effect, “I like what this person is saying or this organization is saying”, but that “I'm going to side with them because they're going to get me a little further than where I want to get.”
Well, I can't support where you want to get if I don't understand where you're going.
4:55 p.m.
Board Member, Indian Resource Council
I'll leave my comments there and turn it over to Chief Fox.
4:55 p.m.
Chairman, Indian Resource Council
What's the common denominator? I come from it as an elder, from a school of wonderful elders who have taught me the old ceremonial way. What's the common factor? We all have to live in Canada and will have to work together.
It's time today, in 2019, for government to stop telling first nations people what to do. That worked in the 1800s. That worked when nobody spoke English on our side. Today we have brilliant academic people all over in various walks of life and careers, but we can sit at the table, as Chief Wapass said, and co-habit and work as a collective.
What's the common factor here? For example, in government, the policies of the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs didn't work as they thought. Perhaps I can say this respectfully: Do not tell us what to do anymore. The residential schools destroyed an era: the languages, the ceremonies, the identity of our people. There is intergenerational trauma.
Allow us; don't interfere through that policy regime. The Creator gave us a brain just like you.
5 p.m.
Conservative