Evidence of meeting #14 for Natural Resources in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was businesses.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Arun Alexander  Director General, North America Trade Policy Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Colin Barker  Director, Softwood Lumber Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Rosaline Kwan  Director General, Trade Sectors, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Michael Owen  Acting General Counsel and Executive Director, Softwood Lumber Litigation Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

You have 30 seconds, Mr. Simard.

1:40 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

I understand.

You spoke briefly earlier about the construction of wood buildings.

Some simple measures can be implemented to promote wood construction. Several stakeholders have come to see us in order to list these measures. To this end, the government could easily include, in the public contracts awarded, the carbon footprint criterion. That way, it could promote all wood products and wood construction.

Would you support this type of measure?

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

I think the forestry sector is an absolute leader. Their contribution to building more sustainably is I think what the opportunity is, in addition to the range of forest-related products that are innovative. That is really going to help us tackle both the environment and the growth of the economy.

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thank you, Minister, and thank you, Mr. Simard.

Mr. Cannings, we'll go over to you, sir.

1:40 p.m.

NDP

Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC

Thank you, Minister Ng, for coming back to the natural resources committee. It's like old times. It's good to see you here.

As you mentioned, the forestry industry is so important. It's important in my riding, in my province of British Columbia, and of course, across the country. This softwood lumber dispute has been going on, I wouldn't say all my life, but for a long, long time. In 2017, I went down to Washington, D.C., with Tracey Ramsey, who was the NDP's critic for international trade at the time. We met with a lot of senators and congressional representatives about this. What struck me, first of all, was that some of the strongest, most strident voices of protectionism down there came from Democrats, so I'm wondering what difference, if any, this new administration can make.

I also heard from representatives who were concerned about the softwood lumber dispute because it was hurting their industries, as you mentioned. Right now we have lumber prices north of a thousand dollars per thousand board feet. That's hurting not just Canadians—I have a friend who's building a house and the price just went up dramatically—but it's also hurting American businesses, retail businesses, wholesalers and consumers. John Fowke, who's the chair of the U.S. National Association of Home Builders, said that these prices are just unsustainable. He's really pressing the administration down there to get this solved.

This would be my first question. What pressure are you exerting on the administration, using those people who are with us in the United States, to solve this?

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

Thank you so much. It's terrific to be here with you. It does feel like old times around the committee, although I'm looking forward to the day when we can once again see each other in person.

What I would say is that I think there is an opportunity and I fully intend to raise it. I think that the issue you have rightly pointed out, which is an area of common interest, is in economic recovery—the workers who depend on those jobs and the affordability of construction.

Just as we do, the Biden administration has an ambitious agenda around providing affordable housing. It's people, the cost of lumber and the cost of construction. I think there is a mutual interest here for us to work together. It is good for workers and it is good for businesses.

I'm very heartened to work with the U.S. administration, who have indicated their preference to work with allies to resolve disputes. Our road map for a renewed U.S.-Canada partnership, I think, is a perfect signal of that. I absolutely intend to work with my U.S. counterpart to find the solution to this issue, and I hope we will be able to achieve a mutually acceptable outcome for both of our countries.

1:45 p.m.

NDP

Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC

As I said, it's been going on for so long and what I've been hearing from the industry and from everyone is, “Why can't we settle this once and for all?” Monsieur Simard mentioned the billion dollars that was left on the table. It's not just getting these illegal tariffs returned to us. It's language in an agreement that will stop these frivolous, vexatious tariffs from happening again. It's language that says what Canada is doing in the forest industry is correct and okay. Maybe it's even penalties for frivolous suits and actions against the Canadian forest industry.

Is there an appetite for that? That's what we're really looking for here, to get this done. I would really like an agreement that would be the last one we need.

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

For sure, Canada's position is that a new softwood lumber agreement is in the best interests of both countries. In this area, in this arena, I really am looking forward to taking a team Canada approach to working with the industry and the workers here in Canada. I do think there are synergies there that are as much in the interests of Americans as they are in the interests of Canadians. My commitment, absolutely, is to raise this at the first opportunity and to work very hard on this file.

1:45 p.m.

NDP

Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC

I hope I have time for one last question in this round.

Quickly, you mentioned mass timber or engineered wood, which two companies in my riding have really pioneered, not just in Canada but in North America. They are Structurlam and Kalesnikoff. That product is shipped into the United States tariff-free because it doesn't meet the requirements for the softwood lumber tariffs, thank goodness. I am hoping it will remain that way, because these companies can provide really good value-added work in Canada. However, they're suffering too now because of the high prices of the two-by-fours and two-by-sixes they use to create that. They're hoping for these prices to come down and a new agreement to be in place.

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

I would agree that Structurlam and...I'm remiss on the other one. They are terrific, terrific companies. Those are the exact examples of companies that are innovating in the sector and creating the kind of new and different value-added products. Indeed, it is those very products that also will help us achieve another objective that both administrations, our government and the American administration, are very keen to work very aggressively on, and that is climate change.

I am very much looking forward to helping our Canadian businesses. On Structurlam, not only are they going into North America—

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thank you, Minister. Again, I apologize. You'll recall from your time on the committee that it is my job to do that from time to time, as unpleasant as it may be. I apologize.

Thank you, Mr. Cannings.

Mr. McLean, it's over to you, sir. We're into a five-minute round now.

February 26th, 2021 / 1:45 p.m.

Conservative

Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, welcome to the committee. It's a pleasure to have you here.

I really appreciated all your comments delivered in all earnestness about how we're going to pay attention to our trade relationship going forward, but we watched in dismay while we saw a release this week that said all the important matters that were raised with the U.S. administration this week regarding how we're going to work hand in hand with the new U.S. administration.... We also had a CUSMA negotiation happen not so long ago. This industry, again, was left out of that whole negotiation.

As my colleague Mr. Cannings was saying, at what point in time will we actually come to a real agreement here and this government will actually put forward the steps required to come to a solid agreement that will last with the United States in this industry?

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

Thank you so much, Mr. McLean. It's wonderful to see you and to be here at committee.

We absolutely believe that a negotiated settlement to this dispute is for sure in the best interest of both Canada and the U.S. Just as we pursued the negotiations in CUSMA, the new NAFTA, it is taking a team Canada approach, working with industry, working with workers and making sure that we are advocating and working together with the Americans in areas where it is good for them and it is also good for us.

I think I've already shared the examples of where that will be. I am heartened to know that the new U.S. administration wants to work with its allies in resolving issues. I am very much looking forward to raising this at the first conversation I have with my new U.S. counterpart.

1:50 p.m.

Conservative

Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Thank you, Minister. I hope we can get to some timelines here on when that actually will happen, because it seems to continue to get pushed forward.

I have some questions about the biomass we have. It's the largest biomass per capita, in Canada. I'm wondering if you believe this biomass can be used as a carbon sink in our negotiations with other countries when we come to environmental considerations.

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

I think the biomass we have in our country is a testament to the industry, to the manner in which it is innovating and the way in which we are finding new environmentally sound and good products. They will make it into value chains and production to help with Canada's climate goals as well as those of our friends south of the border. Indeed, in many of the export markets there is an opportunity. We will work with those businesses to grow.

1:50 p.m.

Conservative

Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Thank you, Minister Ng. I appreciate that.

The government is committed to actually planting two billion trees over the next handful of years, increasing the Canadian wood stock by about 0.5% as a carbon sink. How do you think this will be viewed by our trade partners as a potential trade subsidy if we're going to spend, as the Parliamentary Budget Officer says, at around $3 a tree, $6 billion to actually accomplish a 0.5% increase?

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

Well, it's a really important question, and I think this is something that we are always sensitive to. Canada is a country that is trade compliant.

Canada is also a country that is committed to supporting our businesses, and certainly here, in a really important sector like the forestry sector and the wraparound and the range of products that are emerging. Certainly, the products that are contributing to climate action here but literally around the world is what we are doing to support the innovation and the new products that are coming online.

It is a balance that we've have always been sensitive to, and to be trade compliant—

1:50 p.m.

Conservative

Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Thank you, Minister. I have one final question. I think I probably have a little extra time here for a final question.

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Sure.

1:50 p.m.

Conservative

Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

How are we going to have our industry compete with the United States forest industry when we have a carbon tax increasing in Canada versus no carbon tax in our main trading partner, the United States?

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

I think our commitment to climate action in Canada is what makes us competitive. The forestry industry should be applauded for its leadership in sustainability. Absolutely, the environment and the economy can go hand in hand. The way in which the new emerging opportunities that we are supporting in that development and in that growth is going to stand Canada's industry steadfast precisely because we have a plan on tackling climate change.

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. McLean. Unfortunately, that is all your time.

Mr. Sidhu, you are up next for five minutes.

1:50 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

Sorry, Mr. Chair.

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Yes, Mr. Simard.

1:50 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

I was under the impression earlier that Mr. Sidhu had given up his turn to allow the minister to finish her remarks.