Evidence of meeting #28 for Natural Resources in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was million.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
All right. Thanks, Mr. Cannings.
I remember that study, and I am sure people are thinking “Boy, a study on data must have been really exciting”, which was my reaction when it was proposed, but it was actually very exciting and very interesting, believe it or not.
Mr. McLean, over to you.
2:40 p.m.
Conservative
Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I am going to ask questions to the Canada Energy Regulator here, because the main estimates are increasing from $71 million to $97 million, and yet you have had an opening here where you've moved from Calgary to Ottawa. Is this a function of how—
2:40 p.m.
Conservative
2:40 p.m.
Liberal
2:40 p.m.
Conservative
Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
Okay.
Is this a function of different costs in Ottawa versus in its previous home in Calgary? Is this a function of more consultants being involved with the Canada Energy Regulator? If you could you break out how much money we're paying in consultation fees to external organizations through the energy regulator, it would be much appreciated.
I also want to know about the mandate of the Energy Regulator, because it produced a report in November on the Trans Mountain pipeline that talked about potentially decreasing volumes in the future, going forward. I never knew that this was the Energy Regulator's mandate.
Who commissioned the report and who wrote it? Is the organization now a victim of regulatory capture by special interest groups?
If you could answer those questions, I think it would be really informative for the committee.
2:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Natural Resources
The CER is an independent organization with its own CEO, and I respect that. Maybe you want to address these questions to her with regard to how they manage the organization.
However, on the report, and maybe on the funding we see in the main estimates, there is an adjustment. Most of the adjustment, to my understanding, is just money that they were normally getting through the supplementary estimates, which is now A-based, and so they're getting it through the main estimates—
2:40 p.m.
Conservative
Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
Actually, I'll correct you there, Mr. Tremblay. It has, in fact, been increasing ever since it moved to Ottawa, in the main estimates and the supplementary estimates. It's gone up to $97 million this year from $71 million last year and from $56 million the previous year, so it's a continuous rise.
If there's nobody there to answer the question, let me go to the next question for you.
One thing that's gone down in these mains, of course, is contributions to support cybersecurity and critical infrastructure protection. Let me explain what happened, as I'm sure you know.
On the east coast of the United States, Colonial Pipeline was hacked. As we are spending less money now, obviously we're going to be open to some kind of hack here, potentially, going forward. This is all great in the rear-view mirror, but I'm going to suggest that perhaps we need our infrastructure looked after.
In that respect, when you think about a cyber hack, we've had a political hack of our infrastructure that goes from western Canada all the way to Sarnia, which provides 540,000 barrels a day of energy to Ontario. Why aren't we spending more money ensuring that, in fact, our agreement with the United States to honour the Transit Pipeline Treaty is respected by our trade partner? Why isn't that part of these main estimates?
2:45 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Natural Resources
I'm not sure on this one. I'm not sure I follow you on the last question.
On cybersecurity, I can tell you that we are part of the Canadian cybersecurity strategy. Funding has been allocated to this for years.
We have worked with the U.S., of course, on cybersecurity in energy, and we have been very active in working with our colleagues, especially the utilities, on making sure that the grids and our infrastructure are actually as safe as possible. It is an area that we take very seriously. I can tell you that it is something, through our road map to renewal with the U.S. in terms of our partnership, that is actually at the centre of our discussions and will continue to be.
Our goal, as much as possible, is to have an integrated system that protects both sides of the border, to make sure that we do exercise simulations together, and that we make sure that the strategies and mitigation strategies are in place on both sides of the border—
2:45 p.m.
Conservative
Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
And here you're cutting. This is one area where you're cutting—
2:45 p.m.
Conservative
Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
You don't have as much for cybersecurity as you did last year.
2:45 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Natural Resources
I'm not sure we're cutting cybersecurity, and—
2:45 p.m.
Conservative
2:45 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Natural Resources
I will turn to Mollie to explain.
2:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Low Carbon Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources
I think it's the way we've been able to spend the contribution agreements in our partnership and to conduct exercises with our partners. I think it's also important to note that this is part of the work that we are doing with other jurisdictions. It's about what our partners are able to do on the other side of the border in a specific period of time, but this is also one slice of the work that we do. We're also working with other partners in the federal system as one part of the government's critical infrastructure plan that's managed by Public Safety, and with other organizations and agencies too. So there's—
2:45 p.m.
Conservative
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
I'm going to have to stop you there, Mr. McLean. Thanks.
I believe you're next, Mr. Serré. I can give you probably about three minutes.
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
Marc Serré Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
Thank you, Chair, for your generous time. That's good.
Mr. Lefebvre and I met with representatives from the Sudbury-based mining company Glencore. They told us about a partnership with CanmetMINING, which has labs in Ottawa, Hamilton and Sudbury.
Mr. Labonté, can you tell us more about the work CanmetMINING is doing in the sector?
2:45 p.m.
Jeff Labonté Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Minerals Sector, Department of Natural Resources
Thank you, Mr. Serré.
CanmetMINING is one of NRCan's science and technology laboratories. It's focused on mining and mining techniques and optimizing the approaches that reduce environmental impacts on mining. It also plays a particular role in regulating and certifying mining equipment that operates mostly underground to ensure the safety of the mining workplace.
We have a Canmet laboratory in Ottawa, one in Val-d'Or, one in Sudbury as well, and one that's co-located in Hamilton with our materials laboratory that does metals lightweight research.
Our programming in CanmetMINING has been focused for a number of years on a number of key deliverable areas. One is about mining value from waste: taking mining operations that exist where there are waste residuals and waste rock and trying to produce commercially viable processes that can then extract minerals from those. There are immense numbers of critical minerals that are available in waste materials. Those materials were previously not particularly useful or seen as commercial, yet now they're a source of potential value. That extends right into the tailings that we see in sectors, including the oil sands sector in Alberta and Saskatchewan and in the work we do across the country.
At the same time, CanmetMINING has been working on rare earths and chromite. We're just concluding a six-year research agenda, in which there was over some $40 million spent on developing mining techniques for rare earths and rare earth elements. These are particularly interesting now in the critical mineral space, in that they're in demand for batteries, magnets and other things that go into electric vehicles and advanced clean energy activities. We're now moving into areas around hydrogen and using hydrogen in the mining processes and looking at energy efficiency as well.
CanmetMINING is one of our jewels of our research community that does the science and tech. The research is generally done in partnership with industry. The industry usually has the research problems and the research challenges or a particular technique that they're trying to develop, and our scientists work directly with industry and with the university communities to develop those new techniques.
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
Marc Serré Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
Thank you.
I'm looking forward to that expanding as much as we can too.
I don't know if I have much time, Ms. Johnson, but I wanted you to expand on our government's role on nuclear. We've done quite a few enhancements there in the budget. I just wanted to see if you could expand quickly on our commitment to nuclear.
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
It's a broad question, but if you can answer it quickly, I would be grateful.
