Evidence of meeting #116 for Natural Resources in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michael Vandergrift  Deputy Minister, Department of Natural Resources
Glenn Hargrove  Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Forest Service, Department of Natural Resources
Rinaldo Jeanty  Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Minerals Sector, Department of Natural Resources
Erin O'Brien  Assistant Deputy Minister, Fuels Sector, Department of Natural Resources

The Chair Liberal George Chahal

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 116 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Natural Resources.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(5) and the motion adopted on Wednesday, November 20, 2024, the committee is commencing its consideration of supplementary estimates (B) 2024-25, referred to the committee on Monday, November 18, 2024.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. I would like to remind participants of the following points. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. All comments should be addressed through the chair. Members, please raise your hand if you wish to speak, whether participating in person or via Zoom. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order the best we can.

I would now like to welcome our guests and witnesses with us today.

For the first hour, we have the Honourable Jonathan Wilkinson, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources. From the Department of Natural Resources, we have our officials. We have Michael Vandergrift, deputy minister, Francis Brisson, assistant deputy minister and chief financial officer, Glenn Hargrove, assistant deputy minister of the Canadian forest service, and Erin O'Brien, assistant deputy minister of the fuel sector.

Just to let everyone know, I use these cards. The yellow card is a 30-second warning. The red card means the time's up. I'll try not to cut you off mid-sentence.

Minister Wilkinson, thank you for coming. The floor is yours for opening remarks. You have up to five minutes.

November 27th, 2024 / 4:30 p.m.

North Vancouver B.C.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson LiberalMinister of Energy and Natural Resources

Thank you, Mr. Chair and honourable colleagues. It is a pleasure to be with you today to speak to supplementary estimates (B).

Climate change is altering our world's natural environment in a myriad of harmful ways. This means increasingly severe and frequent weather events, but it also means more expensive groceries, higher local taxes and higher insurance premiums for Canadians. In fact, climate change is already costing the average Canadian household $700 per year, and it cost our economy $7 billion in insured losses last summer alone.

There is some good news here. The economics behind climate change are transforming global finance and markets, creating enormous opportunity on a scale similar to the Industrial Revolution for those who are thoughtful and strategic.

Canada's economic strategy, informed by science and business, is seizing this opportunity for workers and businesses. I look to places like Alberta, where over 6,000 workers are busy building a net-zero petrochemical facility. Other companies are moving quickly to reduce emissions and create thousands of good jobs, including companies like Strathcona, Linde, Shell, Entropy and more.

We cannot economically or environmentally deny and ignore the scientific reality, as the Conservative Party does today. Just like Canada's scientists the last time Pierre Poilievre was in government, Conservative MPs are being muzzled and silenced. They are forced to repeat the same robotic rhymes and tired slogans. Their leader calls the shots and does not let them act on the impetus in front of us: a strong economy and a livable future for our children.

The government is taking a different approach. It's one focused on making life cost less, creating jobs, seizing the economic opportunities in front of us and positioning ourselves to continue to supply the world with its energy and critical minerals needs. Our approach is securing Canada's future as an energy superpower and delivering for Canadian workers in our oil and gas sector by placing a cap on carbon pollution. This ensures that record profits are invested back into Canada instead of overseas. It keeps the sector competitive over the long term, creates thousands of jobs for Canadians, and reduces emissions.

This plan is working. We have attracted historic investments from companies, including Volkswagen, which is building the largest electric vehicle manufacturing plant ever, Air Products, which is investing $1 billion to build a new hydrogen facility in Alberta, and the Burchill wind project in New Brunswick, which is cutting energy bills and creating good jobs for the Tobique First Nation.

As I said, emissions are down. They have dropped about 8% below 2005 levels, the lowest that they have been since 1992. By 2030, emissions will be 41% lower than what they would be under the Conservatives and millions of tonnes less than under the NDP's plan.

Colleagues, the estimates we are discussing today reflect the focus on creating jobs and increasing economic opportunities across Canada. They include investments for indigenous people, building new clean energy projects, advancing new technologies, extracting critical minerals, fighting wildfires and giving workers a seat at the table through the Sustainable Jobs Act.

I felt compelled to appear before you today because these important measures are at risk. The Conservative Party, enabled and supported by the Bloc and the NDP, is obstructing the work Canadians elected each of us to do by bringing this Parliament to a complete standstill. As we speak, in the chamber upstairs, they are blocking vital legislation that will deliver clean water to indigenous communities, funding to build affordable housing and funding for health care and dental care.

The NDP used to say it was a party of workers, but it is now supporting the Conservatives in blocking the $3 million needed to give workers a seat at the table through the Sustainable Jobs Act.

The Bloc Québécois used to care about Quebec's forestry sector. However, it now supports the Conservatives who are blocking over $4 million in critical funding to fight the forest fires that have harmed our forestry industry.

The Conservative Party, after years of ignoring indigenous rights and voices, is blocking over $13 million for the important work of the indigenous advisory and monitoring committee. Together, these parties are blocking funding for the smart renewables program, which is helping to build affordable, reliable and clean electricity grids.

Colleagues, I urge you all to support the estimates as presented, and ask you each to stand against Pierre Poilievre's ridiculous obstruction, which is wasting millions of taxpayer dollars, so we can adopt this funding that will strengthen our economy and fight climate change.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I look forward to the questions.

The Chair Liberal George Chahal

Thank you for your opening remarks, Minister Wilkinson.

Now I will go to our first round of questioning, which starts with Mrs. Stubbs.

Mrs. Stubbs, you have six minutes. The floor is yours.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister and officials, for being here.

Minister, it strikes me that everything you just talked about seems to suggest that you haven't been in power for nine years. I guess the obvious question for most Canadians would be, “Well, how do you imagine that any of us are supposed to believe that any of those things are priorities for you, when, after nine years, you haven't gotten any of it done?” If you're so confident—now you want to fight the Conservatives, the NDP and whomever—then call a carbon tax election and let Canadians make this decision once and for all.

I have a general question for you, to start.

If you're the seller of a product, do you believe having more customers is better than having one?

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

Thank you, honourable member.

We have been in power for nine years. We've made enormous progress. The smart renewables program, for example, has 71—

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

As the seller of a project, is it better to have more customers? Are more customers better than one?

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

—different projects that have generated 2,700 megawatts of power.

What Canadians want to understand is why—

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

Minister, I asked you a very simple question.

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

—you are obstructing the work of Parliament, and why Parliament is wasting millions of dollars doing almost nothing every day. The Conservatives simply obstruct everything that's happening.

The Chair Liberal George Chahal

Minister Wilkinson, we have a point of order. I'll ask you to hold for one second.

Go ahead on your point of order, Ms. Dabrusin.

Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON

The minister was providing an answer, and Mrs. Stubbs kept interrupting. This makes it very hard to hear the answer.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

It's a yes-or-no question.

The Chair Liberal George Chahal

Ms. Dabrusin, thank you for your point of order.

I'm glad we are able to raise this right off the top. We want to make sure the individual asking the question asks the question, and that the minister has appropriate time to provide an answer. I hope members do not interrupt the individual asking the question, or the minister responding to the question asked. If you can give him an appropriate amount of time to do so, I think that would be greatly appreciated. Accordingly, we'll have a smooth meeting.

Thank you, Ms. Dabrusin, for your point of order.

Do you have a point of order, Mr. Falk?

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

Yes.

On a related point of order, when the minister is asked a succinct question, I think he should give a succinct answer.

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal George Chahal

Mr. Falk, thank you for your point of order.

I'd like to acknowledge that he was just getting into giving an answer before he was cut off.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

No.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

The question was simple. I'll repeat the question, Chair.

The Chair Liberal George Chahal

I want to make sure that we have the ability to ask for an answer.

I will go back to you, Mrs. Stubbs.

Actually, I'm sorry, but we have a point of order from Mr. Angus.

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

I don't want to give anybody advice, with my old grey hair, but my Conservative colleagues keep ruining their clips by doing points of order. I say let's just carry on.

The Chair Liberal George Chahal

Thank you.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

Minister, do you believe it's better to have more customers than one?

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

That's exactly the reason we built the Trans Mountain pipeline, which you folks couldn't get built. It was to ensure we had access to tidewater, in order to sell our products to other markets.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

After nine years, what actually happened is this: In the first two years of your government, you killed two private sector-proposed, dedicated export pipelines—one to export to Asia and one to the east coast, which would have secured energy self-sufficiency for Canadians and export markets in Europe. In fact, TMX just now started operating. Within five years, Canada will be out of pipeline capacity altogether.

It is because of your policies that Canada is now, in 2023, still dependent on the U.S. as its number one customer for oil and gas, while the U.S., since 2015—in every Democrat, then Republican, then Democrat, then Republican administration—has turned the United States from a net importer of oil into a net exporter and Canada's biggest competitor. Because of your anti-development policies, they are still Canada's biggest customer.

How can you be proud of a track record that helps create jobs, build pipelines and send money and investment into the United States while leaving Canadians broke, poor and jobless?

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

I would say that it's a sad state of affairs when a representative of a political party that actually couldn't get anything built in this country is making that kind of an argument. At the end of the day, the Conservative Party gutted environmental protections—

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

Four pipelines were built under the Conservative government.

I'm asking about your record.