Natural Resources Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

—and then we could get back to our witnesses.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Chair—

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Is this a point of order, Charlie?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Yes. Can we vote to adjourn debate on this motion?

[A voice]

You can't move a motion unless you have the floor. Is he permitted?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

He has the floor right now.

I have a speakers list. If you want to get on the—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

As I said, I'm just concerned that we are showing such incredible disrespect to witnesses, taking their time—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You're showing a bit of respect by ignoring the rules and just talking any time you think you can.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

—to come here to watch this circus.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'm back to Mr. Bragdon to conclude his—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I have to do the Michelle Rempel look.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will continue.

I believe this is so important that we need to hear it. I think this further substantiates the point we've been making in this motion, which is that the first ministers and the provinces want to have input into this vital and important study that the government has undertaken, that this Parliament has undertaken, and right now, obviously, they feel their voices have not been heard yet and have not been brought to the table.

When provinces within our Confederation are not being welcomed to this committee or are not able to present their viewpoints, their concerns, their thoughts, their suggestions on a subject of such absolute importance as we move towards the future, I think it really is troubling for us as members. We have a responsibility to make sure the voices from our region and around the country are heard, including the provinces. When first ministers are reaching out to us and ministers responsible for various areas want to make sure their voices are heard before this committee, we have a responsibility as committee members, I would think, to want to hear their voices, as we have from other great witnesses all throughout this time. I think we want to make sure that these voices are included.

The minister goes on in his address to the ministers responsible, as well as to the committee:

Dear Ministers:

Below is the Government of Alberta's response to the Federal People-Centred Just Transition Initiative.

Alberta's energy sector is a key source of revenue and employment for Canadians, underpinning the quality of life enjoyed by citizens across the country. As skyrocketing energy costs and other recent global energy challenges have shown, there is a growing demand for energy that is developed responsibly and that is affordable. It should come from us. Alberta and Canada are among the most responsible energy producers in the world. However, federal overreach into Alberta's jurisdiction over its energy and natural resources jeopardizes the province's ability to drive prosperity through a robust oil and gas sector while balancing the need to reduce emissions.

In the name of centralized planning, the federal Just Transition initiative for oil and gas workers threatens to undermine the economic future and livelihoods of Albertans and Canadians by prematurely signalling the end of Alberta's oil and gas sector. It implies that Canada is moving away from oil and gas, and essentially Canadian workers. However, all credible forecasts show oil and gas will continue to be integral to the global energy mix.

The Just Transition initiative erodes investor confidence in the sector, discouraging the investments needed to provide the energy the world needs at a time when energy affordability can no longer be taken for granted. The result is counterproductive to Canada's climate and social goals. If energy production does not come from Alberta, it will come from jurisdictions with much lower environmental human rights standards, at no net-zero emission benefit to the world and at no benefit to Canada's jobs and economy. To be clear, no change in our supply of oil and gas will affect the world's demand for energy.

The federal government's poor track record on its previous transition initiatives for coal workers and fishery workers is cause for serious concern given that many federal promises were made with no coherent follow through or fundamental understanding of the economics, with those workers left unemployed and their communities left behind.

Alberta urges the federal government to listen to the concerns raised by industry and provinces and end the Just Transition initiative. Federal efforts would be better spend continuing to work with Alberta to develop and deploy clean technology, such as Carbon Capture, Utilization, and Storage (CCUS), and enhance provinces' capacity to target emissions directly. Creating an attractive and stable investment environment that encourages industry—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Sorry; I'm not opposing this. I didn't hear that correctly. On a point of order—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I have a point of order. I'm just going to pause you briefly.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Did he say that the Government of Alberta says they want us to end the just transition? If you could just put that on the record, it would be very helpful. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'm sorry. This is getting into debate, so we'll move on.

We'll move on with Mr. Bragdon's intervention.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

It's just a prediction, Charlie, that turned out to be right.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

The letter continues:

The oil and gas industry recognizes the need to reduce emissions and several companies have already adopted net-zero commitments — with the right federal supports, they will drive the creation of future positions in clean tech and ensure workers have the skills they need.

We have outlined our key concerns with the Just Transition initiative below. We have also proposed a partnership that underscores our shared commitment to addressing climate change while providing affordable and reliable energy to Canada and the world.

Here are Alberta's concerns.

1. The Just Transition initiative is out of touch from economic realities, as Canada's oil and gas sector is seeing and responding to real, robust demand for its energy. It is basic supply and demand.

2. Skyrocketing energy prices are a serious challenge for Canadians and people around the world. Limiting Canadian oil and gas at this crucial time will make essential fuel and utilities even more unaffordable.

3. The federal government is prematurely signalling the end of a vibrant oil and gas industry that is a key source of revenue, employment, and prosperity for Canada at a time when the world clearly needs more democratic and reliable Canadian energy, not less.

4. The Just Transition initiative undermines investor confidence in the sector, undercutting our industry's ability to meet increasing demand to the benefit of energy producers with much lower environmental, labour, and human rights standards.

5. Undermining the oil and gas industry will actually harm Canada's ability to meet ambitious climate change targets, given the industry is the key funder and developer of the technologies that will be required to transition to a low-carbon economy. Without the oil and gas sector, Canada will not be able to deliver this transition.

6. Oil and gas companies representing the majority of production in Canada have already adopted net-zero commitments and the jobs of tomorrow will be created as companies adapt to new technology and fuel sources like hydrogen. It is impossible for the federal government to transition workers to jobs that do not exist or that the private sector will not support. 7. The Just Transition initiative discourages Canadians away from high paying jobs in the oil and gas sector, where companies are experiencing labour shortages and hiring demand continues to grow. Alberta has already heard from industry that the announcement is harming their ability to attract, hire, and retain workers.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'm sorry, Mr. Bragdon. Can I interrupt you? I just noticed Mr. McLean has had his hand up, and I don't know if he has a point of order or if that's a residual hand.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Chair, I'm waiting to be on the speakers list when my colleague has completed his intervention.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Okay, I'll add you. I have the list, and you're included on it now.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Next is “Implications for the Economy and Energy Security”—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, but I've had my hand up for a considerable amount of time. Am I just getting added to the list now?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Yes, you're on the list, and....